Shame on you, NYC

Putting 5 dollars up that this thread now derails with AndTimeBegan's defense that a big band is only a band that sells out in NYC with more than 200+ people:lol:

What are you talking about? This isn't a discussion of what constitutes "big" or not. The OP believes that 100 people at that show is a failure and I think it's pretty much what's expected.
 
Well, to any of us regulars to metal shows at B.B. Kings and other NYC area venues, 100 is indeed a failure. Been to more shows there than I can count with all levels of bands and that is a poor showing for anyone in NYC. I was going to go and bailed out. I truly regret that now, but just wasn't up for it.
 
Well, to any of us regulars to metal shows at B.B. Kings and other NYC area venues, 100 is indeed a failure. Been to more shows there than I can count with all levels of bands and that is a poor showing for anyone in NYC. I was going to go and bailed out. I truly regret that now, but just wasn't up for it.
You were one of the few from forum that I expected to see there. Sorry you couldn't make it out, sweetie ... would have been really great to see you and catch up. Of course, I now wish I would have made the effort to post a "who's going" or resurrect the old thread about this show yesterday before leaving for NY. Who knows? It might have helped drum up a few last minute ticket purchases.
 
When was the last time Grave Digger even played the US?
I believe I said I my prior post that they played BWBK festival a few years ago ... 2004 I think it was. That was the first and only other time that they played the US from what I understand.

That's another show Nick and I will forever kick our own asses for missing - Grave Digger, Saxon, Brainstorm, Doro, etc. Too bad we found out about it when Nick read a review of the fest the Sunday after it happened.
 
I'll take this one in bits

Big difference between Europe (obviously they will get a prime slot in a situation like Wacken which is their home country) and America. When was the last time Grave Digger even played the US? They'd probably wind up opening for bands like Firewind and Sonata Arctica in the US at this point. Whether or not you think they are good has no effect on their fanbase, or lack of one.
I absolutely agree with this actually. I mean, my point was that Grave Digger is a huge band. But you're right, the american fanbase is just not there, and those who are big GD fans are spread out over our fucking gigantic country which makes a big difference. Since they've never toured here, it is a bit difficult for them to do so now unless they start touring a lot, which won't happen (i'm getting ahead of myself though...)
I'm not saying by any stretch of the imagination that they are a bad band but to expect that they should draw more than 100 people when they rarely play the US and have virtually no appeal here to begin with is a bit naïve.
I disagree with this part though. With a special show like this, they should have gotten more than 100 people easy. I mean, i was at Symphony X's cd release show and it was packed, and they always play here. I think this event is more special... yeah, Symphony X has a much larger fanbase in the states, but the old school fans and new fans alike should have counted for more than 100 people. I won't argue that they're going to be selling out shows, but i think 75-100 people is more likely for a tour in a medium to big size market than just a one-off show. The special show should attract more people easy, though they should have had another name on the bill to fill it out a bit.
It's kinda like how Lamb Of God and As I Lay Dying don't have much of a draw just yet in Europe (well that's gonna change very soon since they are actively touring over there now... but in 2005-2006 LoG was billed really low on Unholy Alliance Europe for example). The difference though is that these bands are going to work to change that whereas bands like Grave Digger will not.
I guess the difference i see in this example is these bands are just starting out (i know, been around for a while, but if we compare respective careers then you know what i mean). I think that the difference is, as you said, touring. LoG and AILD are young and willing to tour their balls off whereas Grave Digger shuold have done that long ago to make their mark in the US scene so they could continue today (like Helloween, Destruction, etc. etc.) I think it's a matter of their old fans not realizing they're still around and their new fans just being so few and far between that a tour wouldn't really pull many people unless they did open a few bigger tours first.

point is, i think this show should have done better (not just because i like them, i really think that if it had been done properly there would have been a better turnout) and is disappointing that it didn't.
 
In all honesty, given MANY factors, it does not surprise me one bit that only 100 people were there.

Let me say, I mean NO disrespect to GD, as I myself am a casual fan of theirs.

1) The event itself did NOT justify the ticket price.
(I know people will argue, and say, "True fans will pay ANY price" Maybe for some bands, I don't think in the States GD is in that position)

2) Were there any solid openers? Was there ANY opening band? For a special one-off, they should have booked another drawing band. If the label put this show on, then shame on THEM!

3) The band is simply not that well known in the states. Sure, they are a legendary heavy metal band, but its not like they had good US distribution throughout their career. Look at the upcoming SABBAT tour. They are coming with NO touring partner. I would be surprised if there are more than 100 people at ANY of those shows.

4) There are more choices than ever for live metal in the US. How many major metal tours hit your town each month? Add to that the number of US metal festivals which take place each year. This show had very little to offer in competition with the TONS of shows / festivals in the upcoming months, and only would appeal to die-hard GD fans. There was nothing to draw those on the fence (IE - another solid band that might appeal to someone, low ticket price, etc...)

Sorry - This event was not destined for greatness.
 
1) The event itself did NOT justify the ticket price.
(I know people will argue, and say, "True fans will pay ANY price" Maybe for some bands, I don't think in the States GD is in that position)
I guess maybe I'm just used to paying more for bands I love, but I don't see $30 as too much to spend for a band that you like that is coming from Europe, especially when there is another band on the bill, even if that band is a local.
2) Were there any solid openers? Was there ANY opening band? For a special one-off, they should have booked another drawing band. If the label put this show on, then shame on THEM!
There was a local opener, Arctic Flame. Several folks I was standing with at the barrier knew them. They really were good, although I think the singer's stage presence was lacking, his vocal ability and their music was good. I don't know their reputation, so I don't know how well they typically draw. I agree, it would have helped to have another more well known supporting band on this show. I still don't think that all that justifies only 100 people at the show.
 
It's dissapointing that they didn't bring in a million people but what can you do. That's just how it is. Also as you said Symphony X was just on tour with Megadeth and the new album sold like 6,000 copies in a week. There's no comparison between the two. I don't even want to know how the new GD did here.

Also I agree 100% with Jasonic.
 
What are you talking about? This isn't a discussion of what constitutes "big" or not. The OP believes that 100 people at that show is a failure and I think it's pretty much what's expected.


Your origional post said Grave Digger aren't a big band anymore. Since they've never been big in the US one can only assume you ment in Europe. As has already been pointed out that is incorrect. Grave Digger remain a big name in Europe. If you ment the US your implication that they were once big here would also be incorrect.

What rms is refering to is your growing reputation for attempting to justify errors rather than just admitting you made a mistake and moving on. That's not a personal attack. I'm simply pointing out that this isn't the first time it's been brought up.

That aside, one would still expect the draw for an exclusive US appearance to be higher than a dancing hobo. Dream Evil's one off show in California last year had a much larger audience IIRC.
 
Almost every power/proggy metal band that comes through has ticket prices in excess of 20 dollars at presale from opening bands which are always cheaper than the presale fee from ticketmaster or ticketswest or any of the other ticket vendors, which in turn are always raised again at the door. Paying 30 dollars for a show isn't really that much... unfortunately.

Which makes me wonder... why the hell is it that Kamelot and Epica was like 30 fuckin' dollars when a bill like Hate Eternal, Krisiun, Decapitated and some other death metal band are never more than like 15 bucks at the door? Seriously, death metal shows are always infinately cheaper with more touring bands on the bills. Makes no sense whatsoever to me, but i can't really be fucked to care much. Just an observation.
 
BlackRose -
$30 is indeed a fair price.
I must have mis-read someone's previous post.
I thought it was more in the $60 to $75 range.

Sure, maybe that is a solid local band, though would that appeal to anyone OUTSIDE of NY? I mean, I would assume the promoters expected out of towners if this was being billed as the ONLY US appearance. I am sure there are MANY better drawing US bands that would have jumped to get on this show, if they were asked. Lord knows, there are a ton of great US bands that rarely play the states anymore (For VERY obvious reasons, such as this discussion right here! :))

...AndTimeBegan -
I was thinking the same thing.
I bet the last few Grave Diggers have not sold very well in the states. I wouldn't even guess at a number, but if someone were holding a gun to my head, I would say maybe 2000 - 3000 each (and I am being VERY generous).
 
That aside, one would still expect the draw for an exclusive US appearance to be higher than a dancing hobo. Dream Evil's one off show in California last year had a much larger audience IIRC.

Come on man...
You SERIOUSLY question why Dream Evil would draw more than GD?

VERY simply to answer...

QUESTION #1
How many people under 25 are familiar with Grave Digger?

QUESTION #2
How many people under 25 are familiar with Dream Evil?

You can walk into any Best Buy and find the last couple Dream Evil's.
Trust me, it also does not hurt them that their discs are located VERY close to both DragonForce and Dream Theater.

A younger metalhead isn't going to just stumble on a band like Grave Digger.

I think all of us are guilty in trying to translate a band's popularity outside of the online world.

I went to ALEHORN OF POWER FESTIVAL a couple years back in Chicago. It was headlined by MANILLA ROAD and SLOUGH FEG. Hell, on paper, you would think that would draw over 1000 people!!! At best, 300 were there.
 
The Gates of Slumber are a traditional doom metal band, from Indianapolis. Very Saint Vitus influenced, but also influenced by US Cult metal, ala Cirith Ungol and Manilla Road. I would recommend their SUFFER NO GUILT album as a good starting point.
 
German metal stalwarts Grave Digger played their only US show last night in NYC (I believe this is only the second time in 15+ years). The show was bounced around from venue to venue, and settled back at BB Kings. There were just over 100 people in attendance. How is this even possible in one of the biggest metal markets in this country? It was an absolutely pitiful showing. Unfortunately I think the label gave them this promo show, to see how well they could draw (for a potential US tour).... and it failed miserably.

Man, I HATE to see that kind of crap... I'm not a huge GD fan, but I would have made that show just to see them. Reminds me of the end of Blackfoot's heyday when there couldn't have been 10 people there (including my group of 4) at a little shithole club just outside of Chicago. Good talking with you before the show yesterday, btw!
 
Unless someone is a die-hard Power Metal fan, they're simply not going to be aware of Grave Digger (I'm speaking strictly of U.S. Metal fans). They've had zero exposure here. And they're not a band that the casual fan is going to gravitate to, as the vocals are an acquired taste (<-- and I'm being kind with that assessment).

Zod
 
BlackRose -
$30 is indeed a fair price.
I must have mis-read someone's previous post.
I thought it was more in the $60 to $75 range.
You may have read where I posted that the VIP tickets saw a hike from $55 on the BBKings site to $100 when clicking on the "Buy tickets" link to Ticketbastard.
Come on man...
You SERIOUSLY question why Dream Evil would draw more than GD?

VERY simply to answer...

QUESTION #1
How many people under 25 are familiar with Grave Digger?
FTR, I am 24 and will be 25 in September.
QUESTION #2
How many people under 25 are familiar with Dream Evil?

You can walk into any Best Buy and find the last couple Dream Evil's.
Trust me, it also does not hurt them that their discs are located VERY close to both DragonForce and Dream Theater.

A younger metalhead isn't going to just stumble on a band like Grave Digger.

I think all of us are guilty in trying to translate a band's popularity outside of the online world.
FTR, I also like Dream Evil, but didn't stumble onto them at a store like Best Buy. I believe I found them at ProgPower or heard them on a Monsters of Metal Video compilation, probably one of the same ones that has Grave Digger on it (although I'm not positive about that part). Point is some of us younger metalheads just do stumble upon stuff like Grave Digger. And some of us are able enough and committed enough to show them the support whenever we can and when we know they need it.

Also, in regards to there being another band placed on the bill by the label. DemonOfTheWoods told me that Tankard was playing at BB Kings next weekend and apparently they are on the same label as Grave Digger. Just checked the Web site and the show has been pulled. Wonder if they sold any tickets at all? And if not, I wonder if the show being pulled has anything to do with the turnout for the Grave Digger show? Anybody know when the cancellation was posted?