Side-chaining a kick drum and bass..?

[tearsofthedragon]

Firstly, yes I've read the FAQ and watched the video... Still not working for me.

All I'm trying to do is side-chain the kick drum with the bass so that the bass drum cuts through (I take it that's how you guys are getting that punchy modern metal sound)?

I'm using cubase SX2 (and the video in the FAQ is for version 3 only), I'm also also using some freeware for side-chaing called 'twisted lemmon side-kick'.

If anyone could explain to me how to make this work in the simplest possible terms this would be most helpful! I'm completely baffled, this could also be because I don't really understand how to set the bus up either..?

Thanks dudes!

 

[kev]

Hiya dude, most dont bother at all with sidechaining in metal. Try it by all means as it may work out perfectly tho : ) Its mainly used in dance.

 

[Fox Mulder]

Right, it is not usually used in metal - as we know. But that does not set the boundaries at all. It's always a good thing to experiment. I guess everyone would love to hear some super-punchy metal production

Now, I'm not familiar with cubase or 'twisted lemmon side-kick' at all, but what I do in Pro Tools is:
>Send the kick to a bus (eg. bus1).
>Use it as a pre-fader send (would explain why later). *
>Set up a compressor on the bass track.
>Engage the side-chain function on the compressor. Select the bus that you chose. (eg. bus1).
> Set the attack/release settings according to tempo. Suppose, you have a song with a tempo of 120bpm. You'd want the attack to be 4ms and release to be 62.5ms, I suppose.

* We set it as a pre-fader send so that the changes you make to the fader does not alter the amount of kick volume going into the side-chained bass compressor. You can do that with the threshold instead, and it stays consistent irrespective of what you do to the kick track fader.

Edit: I'd stay away from this unless I'm working on some down-beat groove metal or whatever they call it. Stuff like br00talz t3ch d3ath are gonna sound horrifying with this.

 

[HandsOfDespair]

There was a really good article on sidechaining in cubase in the last Sounds on sound edition. The article explained you could use sidechaining to reduce the volume just a bit of the guitars when vocals were playing, I think it's a good idea.

 

[GarethSE]

It's a good idea to use it on guitar leads.
Duck the reverb and delay when the lead's playing so it doesn't get unintelligable.

 

[tearsofthedragon]

Ahh right, how exactly are you guys getting that punchy sound with the stabs then etc..? Is it something that’s done in the mastering process? - You know that sound where it literally sounds like someone is throwing fists out of the speakers every time there is a stab?

 

[chonchball]

what is your idea of a "stab"?

 

[GarethSE]

like a guitar chord stab?
a good guitar tone
a good drum mix
and big bass



s'all there is to it. there isnt a secret formula.

 

[tearsofthedragon]

I can believe that it is possibly just a combination of good tones, but sometimes it sounds like something more. I'm mostly on about the finvox kind of sound - children of bodom nightwish etc... But if you want a Sneap example, say 'dead eyes see no future' by Arch Enemy, there's stabs at the beginning that have the kind of effect that I'm talking about... Or Enemy of God by Kreator.

 

[Melodeath]

Stabs?

The cymbal chokes?

 

[tearsofthedragon]

No... the overall stabs (combination of drums, bass, guitars etc), not the cymbal chokes.

It sounds like they are compressed for extra punch or something.