SM58 or SM57?

[Andy Sneap]

Thomas, shit, german humour!!!

2dark, thats my whole point, it all adds up.

 

[ThomasT]

Thomas, trust Andy on this one, totally.

I trust him. But I never accept someones opinion unreflected.
For your interesst I never use EQ while recording guitars.
(sometimes a highpass filter at 50Hz/75Hz)
Strait from the Preamp (Sytek) into the RME ADI-8.

I admit that I'm also very lazy sometimes and every time I regret that.
Leaving a mic at a 'good' position and not have taking the time to find the 'best' position.

That's another point, exspecially when there is not much time.
But this is not the point. The points is that I always have to EQ the guitars during mixing. Especially when there are additional keyboards (strings sound, analog pad etc.). So I don't know if the good sound on position (x,y) the best or the little different one 1cm left. If you know what I mean.

Don't missunderstand me, I'm not a devotee of the "fix it in te mix"-philosophie. The opposite is true. But there are always some changes, some ambiguities, and some false estimations. So you have a tolerance.
And the sound must between in this tolerance, not more, not less.
There are other more important influences the amp, the cab, the room, the position in the room, not to forget the play itself. And the mic placement, too.
But the last 1cm are less influence than the mic itself. Even two 57 sounds more different sometimes.

It remembers me on the endless discusions in rec.audi.pro about preamps.
In this way that a good preamp can improve the sound of a (bad) singer dramatically.
(Although the SM57 likes a good preamp with high impedance).

Just my to euro-cents.

Lets stop at this point. I assume that we all know how the sound changes with the mic placement and mic angle. So the discussion is not productive anymore.

Wouldn't it make a big difference in the end when all
the 'small' differences are summed together?

Yes, but you never know before whats the sum.
Maybe Andy and you, but I never know the result before it is mixed already.
I always had to make compromises. And last but not least the taste changed the more you hear a song. The whole image you have in mind somtimes changes sligtely from tracking guitars until the last vocals. So a special sound you liked during guitar soundcheck becomes worser when you really hear all instruments together. Especially after some weeks when you start mixing.

 

[Cooperman]

Just out of interest sake... How important would mic position on a cab in a live situation be? Of all the live sound engineers I've had doing the sound for my band, I've never seen one of them get a flashlight out and shine the light through the speaker grill to see where the cone of the speaker is.

 

[Andy Sneap]

well they bloody well should, at least get a chinagraph and mark the cabs best spot.
Dont use tape, cause believe it or not that makes a big difference (here we go again!!).
I learnt that one to a certain bands amusement.

The amount of live guys I see stick the 57 right up to the cloth so it's touching is annoying.

 

[Andy Sneap]

just reading your last post Tommy old boy, if 2 of your 57s sound more different than moving 1 a cm when on axis on a cab, its about time you got down to amptown and put that 2 euro towards a new 57.
All joking aside, i know (think i do anyway) what your say, theres a bit of room as to what is good, its all subjective, and personal. At the end of the day, thats what give a producer "his sound".

I've just been doing this for so long, I know exactly what I want to hear and also the response I want to feel when tracking, and like I say, I'll go through every little detail, different tubescreamers, mic placement blah blah blah till I feel I've got the best. Colin is the same, alot of attention to detail.

Attention!!! Actung! Jah!!

 

[ThomasT]

Hallo Andy!

>I know exactly what I want to hear

That's good. Do you tweak it for every song? Or do you track a whole album with one adjustment. I normally track (I'm lazy) with one adjustment and I notice that e.g. a song in Aminor played relatively high around the A need other EQing that a Song played very deep on B (or H if you like...) . That's about one oktave.

 

[Andy Sneap]

its very rare I'll have a band with a whole octave difference, one thing I have found though is the 75wt celestions work better at concert pitch and the 30's better with the lower tuning.

 

[ThomasT]

one thing I have found though is the 75wt celestions work better at concert pitch and the 30's better with the lower tuning.

Interesting. I also noticed some differences. But I didn't analyzed it sytematically until know. I like the engl cab of the guitarist of my second band. And AFAIR there are 30s celestions in it.
Sometimes the metallic grill of engl cabs rattles...

And I don't like the marshall cabs. They are boomy and produce muddy lows.
On of my guitarist has worked as a carpenter. And he needs to add some additional stays...

 

[Andy Sneap]

you need a taller boogie cab, very cool, good wood, solid as one of your bunkers

 

[ThomasT]

I'll try it, I know someone who has one.

My normal clients are demo-bands, so I will not buy it for myself.
Would be different if I were a guitarist...