Snare gets buried by kick attack / Snare verb gets buried by everything??

[Markus Esch]

Hey guys,

i got a little problem with my snare that i just can't figure out!

It appears that my kick attack clouds my snare attack but attenuating the kick attack is also crap! is there some workaround here?

Also, i love those big snare verbs, but it get's buried by everything, i guess mostly by the guitars. maybe theres to much hiss in the guitars or i'm using the wrong reverb (uad realverb-pro). Got an idea for that?

Thanks mates!

Cheers, Markus

 

[ArthurD]

Try eq another hi freq on the kick. Are you using a bell or hi shelf?
Realverb pro sounds nice.
Try seding the snare to a bus (or duplicate it), compress the shit out of it and add the reverb, mix to taste

 

[Markus Esch]

i'm using high bells but wide q, with a high shelf the kick would probably cover the cymbals.
it's gotten better, compression seems to do the trick.
is there a way to get the reverb more upfront?
i can hear it, but it still gets covered by the highs of the guitar. maybe i have to thin out the guitars a bit more.

 

[Heabow]

I assume you're mixing real drums... If the kick competes with the snare it might be your snare that maybe is too 'top-end sounding'. Make a cut in the kick attack zone and see if it helps. Try another type of verb and... EQ it! You have to make some space around for it as well.

 

[Markus Esch]

unfortunenately and fortunenately i'm using steven slate drums
i had no possibility to record real drums so far.
right now, i can hear the highs from the reverb, but the low mids are caught up by the guitars of course. is there a special range for it? i guess, it's between 500 hz and 2000 hz or something like that.
thanks for the help guys i'll post my mix soon.

 

[ArthurD]

i'm using high bells but wide q, with a high shelf the kick would probably cover the cymbals.
it's gotten better, compression seems to do the trick.
is there a way to get the reverb more upfront?
i can hear it, but it still gets covered by the highs of the guitar. maybe i have to thin out the guitars a bit more.

Try narrow eq to boost high freq on the kick.
Another trick on the reverb would be to duplicate the snare track, use one shot sample 100% and then add the reverb to it, mix to taste.
Also, eqing reverb helps a lot!

 

[Old Man Doom]

Try seding the snare to a bus (or duplicate it), compress the shit out of it and add the reverb, mix to taste

I second this. I just started doing this recently (I have the same problem of snare masking) and it works. I find that doing the same with toms really helps them stand out in cluttered passages as well. Using a VCA-type comp is the way to go IMHO.

 

[Markus Esch]

Thanks again for the advise
I tried it but my snare sounds a bit strange when i crush it (im using a fet comp, slow attack, fast release, ratio 2:1). Sounds like the snare wires are louder than everything.
I do work completely itb. Is there a vca-type plugin compressor you can name?

 

[Heabow]

For drum compression I particularly like the V-comp. CLA-76 is also great on snare imo.

 

[FrankTheSmith]

Sidechain the kick with the snare 1 or 2 db.
scoop out 200hz on the kick and boost 200hz on the snare.
(doesn't have to be 200hz. Just the fundamental frequency of the drum)

 

[Alphanumeric]

EQ the kick click lower, not like 4-7khz as usual,

if you like the sound of a slappy kick like slate stuff rather than clicky.

Otherwise try flux bittersweet all the way up, it loves snares.

For the reverb, the ER's live around the snare crack, say ~5khz

For the decay its usually darker and trails down the presence mids around 800 to 2000, nothing should really be boosted in that area except maybe some bass mids so feel free to cut guitars, toms, snare and vox here and give space.

 

[Old Man Doom]

Thanks again for the advise
I tried it but my snare sounds a bit strange when i crush it (im using a fet comp, slow attack, fast release, ratio 2:1). Sounds like the snare wires are louder than everything.
I do work completely itb. Is there a vca-type plugin compressor you can name?

I use the stock Logic comp with a high ratio (5:1 or so) on the VCA setting, getting approximately 6-8db of GR. It really should be smashed so that the snare crack gets emphasized. I tend to automate this bus during busy parts also.

 

[The StabbinCabin]

Do subtractive cuts while listening in mono and mess with the tunings of the kick/snare.

 

[Daybreak]

Might sound simple enough, but really, if two elements of the mix isn't seperated enough, seperate them more.

First you gotta come to an understanding of - Is the kick burying the snare och the snare burying the kick?

Solo the kick/snare tracks, if the kick is burying your snare, take a wide bell and drag it down like -12 dB. Then move it around on the frequency and see where the snare comes through the most. This would be the are where the kick is overlapping the snare. Bring the gain up to 0 dB. Then slowly bring it down to where the snare cuts through, and the kick doesn't sound like shit. That's what I do at least when trying to seperate elements of the mix, works fine for me!

 

[bryan_kilco]

Also, eqing reverb helps a lot!

+1

I always cut out a bunch of the lows on my verbs because if you're letting the low-mids verb out, you're just muddying up the mix.

 

[harls]

I've always wanted to EQ my snare verbs in Reaper but have never worked out how to do it on my snare bus/send without actually EQing the snare itself too. Could anyone point me in the right direction? Sorry for the thread hijack.

 

[Alphanumeric]

I've always wanted to EQ my snare verbs in Reaper but have never worked out how to do it on my snare bus/send without actually EQing the snare itself too. Could anyone point me in the right direction? Sorry for the thread hijack.

When people talk about this they will be using high end reverbs that come with an eq with them, lexicon, valhalla. Even the stock logic space designer does, generally with IR reverbs.

Otherwise,

snare > bus > reverb > side chain > eq?

 

[mva801]

When people talk about this they will be using high end reverbs that come with an eq with them, lexicon, valhalla. Even the stock logic space designer does, generally with IR reverbs.

Otherwise,

snare > bus > reverb > side chain > eq?

Not necessarily. I use D-verb all the time in Pro Tools then eq it. To eq the reverb you just add an eq after the reverb. I'm not sure about Reaper but in Pro Tools you place a reverb on your aux track, bus the snare to it, then place an eq after the reverb. Just like eqing anything else...
What would you side chain?

 

[Alphanumeric]

Not necessarily. I use D-verb all the time in Pro Tools then eq it. To eq the reverb you just add an eq after the reverb. I'm not sure about Reaper but in Pro Tools you place a reverb on your aux track, bus the snare to it, then place an eq after the reverb. Just like eqing anything else...
What would you side chain?

Im in PT too but use valhalla and the lexicon bundle so never have to eq my verb with another plug so have never tried.

I would have thought that on his bus an eq might slightly affects his snare as he mentioned, and that sidechaining it to only come in on the reverb rather than the snare hit could work? Not sure, never tried myself.

 

[Sloan]

Don't be afraid to treat reverb like a separate element. print/render/freeze it to it's own track then compress/eq/destroy it or whatever you have to do to fit it in the mix.