so yeah i was thinkin about this a little bit

[Frank the tank]

allright, a friend and i were at a party. it kinda sucked. alot of the people there looked uncomfortable. on the way home he said that most of the people there didnt know who they were. he explained more but i kinda forgot, but basically it came down to that most people dont know who they are and alot will never know. okay. so what exactly does that mean? i didnt shrug it off because he's a pretty smart guy ,but now it has me thinking more and i'm not sure i can see through this whole thing. does what he said mean that most people can't think for themselves, or that they never find a purpose , or think that theyre something theyre not? is there some deeper psychological meaning? when we were at the party , alot of the people looked uncomfortable at others with some faces of contempt. alot of the girls who looked like they wanted to be hit on played the "im too good for you game" and frankly it seemed kinda tense sometimes. these are some examples of how he drew his conclusion. he also watched their body language and said he could understand what their unconscious was thinking. and he mentioned that he thinks people never know who they are because otherwise why would we change so much? and how much does your past have to do with it? i know it seems wierd, but think about anything question enough and it begins to seem weird.

 

[speed]

allright, a friend and i were at a party. it kinda sucked. alot of the people there looked uncomfortable. on the way home he said that most of the people there didnt know who they were. he explained more but i kinda forgot, but basically it came down to that most people dont know who they are and alot will never know. okay. so what exactly does that mean? i didnt shrug it off because he's a pretty smart guy ,but now it has me thinking more and i'm not sure i can see through this whole thing. does what he said mean that most people can't think for themselves, or that they never find a purpose , or think that theyre something theyre not? is there some deeper psychological meaning? when we were at the party , alot of the people looked uncomfortable at others with some faces of contempt. alot of the girls who looked like they wanted to be hit on played the "im too good for you game" and frankly it seemed kinda tense sometimes. these are some examples of how he drew his conclusion. he also watched their body language and said he could understand what their unconscious was thinking. and he mentioned that he thinks people never know who they are because otherwise why would we change so much? and how much does your past have to do with it? i know it seems wierd, but think about anything question enough and it begins to seem weird.

So what is your point exactly? There are alot of very interesting philosophical paths one could go with this unintentional stream of consciousness like comment you've posted.

 

[Jrgen]

This is based on the idea that everyone is born with a specific "self", a set number of psychological characteristics and that these just have to be "found", because they are what constitutes the "true self". I can't say I agree with this thought. Everyone is formed partly by genetical heritage and partly by the environment. People take on different personalities, or different "roles" if you wish, simply because the environment prompts them to do so. Everyone acts differently depending on the company. No one acts the same when socializing with people they've never met before as they do when having dinner with their parents. Acting differently in different situations is not the result of individualistic confusion. It is the result of environmental influence and everyone's biological need to strive for conformity. The personality you take on when you visit the dentist is no less the "true you" than the one you take on when talking to a friend.

 

[Frank the tank]

i can accept that, but i think im still looking for something a little deeper. and i could be More specific about what went on and what was said " as far as i can remember at least" but i just want to hear what everyone else has to say. its kinda scary actually the thought the more i think about it and the way i see some people act just in regards to everything in general.

 

[Demiurge]

I do not know what this thread is about.

 

[derek]

Jrgen seems to have it down, for the most part.

People (in simplistic terms) react in a way they feel appropriate to any stimuli (i.e. their environment). I really cannot see any deeper answer to the question.

 

[Frank the tank]

allright well i can accept that and its not a bad answer. basically , and i could go into greater detail but i was trying to laydown what went on and how i came about thinking this, citing specific examples, it's hard to explain since emotion doesnt exist in speech on computers. But i think what i was trying to ask basically was , does it kinda freak anyone else out that a person could go through their entire life completely ignorant of their identity and have no sense of self. if so how is this ? it kinda seemed at the time that everyone can see through everyone else but no one seemed to know themself. understand?

 

[Sacred Profane]

"does it kinda freak anyone else out that a person could go through their entire life completely ignorant of their identity and have no sense of self. if so how is this ?"

It would freak me out if that was the case. I think it's very easy for everyone else to judge others. Especially if you have a trait that makes you 'different'. All the 'normal' people have no personality and they don't think etc etc. I think everyone has an idea of who they are and who they want to be, except at times it's very hard to be that person. At parties for instance it's more about who you show yourself to be rather than who you really are.

As for the party -_- It was probably just one of those tense parties where no one really feels comfy. There are good and bad parties or so

 

[Frank the tank]

yeah true. it just felt sorta depressing almost

 

[hibernal_dream]

I think it's more scary to think a person can simply adopt an identity they discover at the end of their life isn't theirs. After all - what is an identity? Does donning a Metallica shirt, growing long hair and listening to metal all day define who you are? Other creatures don't seem to have any particular identity which changes the way they live in any significant way - a snail is just a snail. I think any person that knows, or thinks they know, who they are and what they want to do before they are quite far into their lives (30 maybe?) will end up having one or several mid-life crises. I can't offer any evidence for that assertion, but it is simply my experience. All the ones who are obsessed with work and study in their early years and through university end up going wild much later - quitting their dream job, cheating on spouse, perhaps experimenting with ***** they never had the chance to do when they were younger. And the party animals suddenly start taking life seriously when they realise they actually need a steady income to support their children.

I don't have an identity and frankly, I don't want one! I'm changing my outlook every day and fear that if I take up something which I spend the whole of my time on i'll regret not spending it on something else. Identity? Who needs one!

 

[Jrgen]

Other creatures don't seem to have any particular identity which changes the way they live in any significant way - a snail is just a snail.

Many mammals have very clear personalities.

 

[Sacred Profane]

Many mammals have very clear personalities.

As a pet owner I can only agree.

 

[Frank the tank]

you know hibernal dream i think it's funny you think about it like that, and i had to sit for a while to try and figure it out, but thats definitely a weird approach and a good one. i never thought of it like that and i really dont have a response yet.

animals have personalities but are more instinct driven. they have emotions but when an animal is born it doesnt really seems to be purpose driven, it just lives. it just seems to know it's own place in nature and doesnt think about much else, as far as i know at least. i have a dog , but it knows it purpose is to scare the shit out of anyone it doesnt know. but it;s domesticated, if it was wild then it might have a different approach to its life.

 

[hibernal_dream]

I was kind of talking about identity/personalities that actually matter in life. My cat might roll on the floor when you tickle her and my but lets face it, all cats act the same. They all like to sleep 2/3 of the day, eat lots of fish and hunt rats. That's their existence - is it their identity? I think you should first work out what you and your friend mean by "identity" - and if it's defined by what clothes you wear, what music you listen to and what occupation you chose in life, does it really matter? Are those things actually who you are? Otherwise I don't see how your friend could draw the conclusion that those people didn't know who they were by several glances at a party.

btw why is the word D.R.U.G.S censored in my post?

 

[Frank the tank]

yeah i was wondering that too. let me try - *****.

ok anyways , i think he was talking more about intrinsic things . i think the type of music you listen to and what not is defined by who youu are and hopefully not the opposite, but i think the question he was contemplating dealt more with the people truly understanding themselves and understanding their motives , or perhaps lack of it. as i may have mentioned it's difficult to understand and ask, but i think what he meant was that they just don't know themselves, don't know it , and probably don't know why. i wonder if alot of people are or feel that way.

 

[Frank the tank]

yeah D.R.U.G.S is censcored on mine too

 

[The.Donut]

Are you asking as to whether people understand their motives for their actions? That these actions, and reactions, are somehow linked with this notion of 'self' or 'true identity'?

 

[Frank the tank]

i guess that's part of the question, or it fits somehow.

 

[Gordon M]

Certain desires are willed in individuals and the ego of those individuals cannot choose what those desires will be; when they are willed, they have to be sated. This is how most people function; over the last few years, I have waged war on this state of affairs, with mixed results.

The process of individuation is something that very few people are aware of and it need not have any mystical bent; it is, quite literally, the process of a lifetime. That concept - that one should think of oneself (and eveything else) not as an unchanging thing, an object, but as a process has an immensely powerful effect one's outlook and attitude. If you follow the morals and ethics of others or of institutions, then you'll never get to any worthwhile place and much frustration will come your way. The downside of all this, of course, is that it can lead to Jack the Ripper, etc as well as Goethe. Nietzsche talks about this in many of his books and of himself personally in Ecce Homo. You will have to make choices in life, so it is of great importance to work out your values and to "re-evaluate" them when contradictions arise. This is something that very few people do, yet 'vaules' are proclaimed everywhere in general terms and as Herr Nietzsche said, "there are no facts, only interpretations" so any idea of a collective system of values is contrived and doomed to failure.

One of the main aspects of the problem of Modern Life is that too many of us are herded together with little room to find ourselves and technological communications shackle us even more tightly together. The spirit of solitude, paradoxically, is lacking in this atomized 'Global Village'. Introspection also seems to be missing in people's lives where 'what happens next?' or 'what will we do next' is ever-present in people's minds. The world is begining to move too fast for us super-apes; the machines dictate the pace now, but the destination is not in site, nay, it has still not yet even been agreed upon! We have now pushed things so far that the wrath of a previously ignored religion and people now threaten all of Europe and USA, while silent, cold civil wars rage in many countries, the causes of which being difficult to articulate. These are times of great uncertainty, but also of unlimited choices - a precarious situation! The Island of Freedom remains uninhabited.