So you want a tight mix?

GarethSE said:
Jesus Christ you actually made a post that wasn't "i r00lz at mast3ring hurrrrr" or "ENERGY DRINKS AND CIGARETTES I AM THE P0D KING" for once.

hats off, genuinely.
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Perhaps you have me pegged as a different person; I don't generally take the internet very serious, so maybe I come across as "teh k00l kid".

... but I do not conduct my self in that manner in person. Nor do I think that what I do online is an example of my character or who I am in person.
:Smokin:
 
Jind said:
Better is a matter of opinion, and taste is very subjective - but, somethings simply do taste better than others - as a matter of opinion of course. There is an age old saying that you simply can't polish a turd - regardless what you do, it's innate turdness will shine through. Call it what you want - editing, correcting, adjusting, perfecting (but then again, one man's trash is another man's treasure), but in the end, good song writing will always remain; it is everlasting.

Time tends to be the judge of what constitutes well made, well written music. What may taste good immediately and may sound good for a little while really amounts to nothing if years down the road nary a soul remembers it was made. Even in this genre we call metal (including the ridiculous sub-genre nomenclature we have) there will always be the cream that rose to the top and stood the test of time. It will be interesting to see years from now if we look fondly upon some of the music produced today. Only time will tell, but I have a feeling that if it is a good, and I mean good, song - it very may well - but they truly are a rarity (and I don't just mean today as there has been lots of music from the past that is long forgotten and did not stand the test of time.)
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You're right, and all things have their place.

I was in the grocery store today, and over the p.a. they were playing "blitzkrieg bop". Funny how the times have changed.
 
joeymusicguy said:
Perhaps you have me pegged as a different person; I don't generally take the internet very serious, so maybe I come across as "teh k00l kid".

... but I do not conduct my self in that manner in person. Nor do I think that what I do online is an example of my character or who I am in person.
:Smokin:
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fair play good sir
 
For the love of god, stop crying in this thread and go on with your lives.. seriously..
 
Note-by-note is definitely superior. That way you can make sure each note is long enough and just crossfade em. Quantizing a good take means a combination of stretching and crossfading that just gets tedious.

But, if the player is good enough to pull it off without editing, that's obviously the best route.
 
this very topic is discussed in this thread. re-read through it
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Yeah I read it but just wanted to get more information about this.
I'd think quantizing would work faster at least in long breakdown sections where it's just it's just the matter of transients aligning properly.
I recently did a production for Sumerian records and the guys of the band wanted to get the forementioned thightness to every track. As I was recording this genre first time I listened to some of for example Joey's work and thought that the gits were quantized so I did that as well. Looks like I was wrong though it worked decently well in that case.
 
Horhe said:
Yeah I read it but just wanted to get more information about this.
I'd think quantizing would work faster at least in long breakdown sections where it's just it's just the matter of transients aligning properly.
I recently did a production for Sumerian records and the guys of the band wanted to get the forementioned thightness to every track. As I was recording this genre first time I listened to some of for example Joey's work and thought that the gits were quantized so I did that as well. Looks like I was wrong though it worked decently well in that case.
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yeah

and its always going to depend on the riff

some riffs aren't possible to just play as close as possible then quantize
because some riffs can create some unwanted noises which can only be removed by either having multiple hands on the guitar, or by recording the riff in pieces
 
can't believe this dicussion is still going on...
some people are doing it this way, and they get clients and are making money doing that....so they'll keep doing it.
the result is a very tight mechanical sounding product without any life in it...some hate that, some like that.

you CAN do it like that, but you don't HAVE to do it like that (the OP's statements like "Sneap, Adam D etc are all doing it this way" is BS of course...see for example quote below).


it ALWAYS depends on the music, the style, the desired end-result.
there are styles and bands (kids) that want stuff to sound like this...this is how it CAN be done (there are other ways, too)....
will it sound like music in the end? yes. will it sound like humans played it? no. does that matter? depends on your taste.


jval said:
All the modern records you guys are all referencing... killswitch, as I lay dying,..... this is how it's done. ... it's just the way it is.
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Andy Sneap said:
f... I dont necessarily BD every single hit. If it sounds good with the snare landing on the grid and the kicks move slightly then so what? Y'know what , a drummer played it! shock horror.
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I like it when people speak of the 'old days' with reverence. To me the whole period of music between the end of the Romantic era (the start of last century) and the 90s was generally a bunch of shit. With the exception of some Louis Armstrong, Big Band/Sinatra type stuff and MJs pop masterpieces (where pop should have ended IMO, nobody since has come even close and the genre has steadily declined into the abomination of our Top 40 now). That's the great thing about opinions. To many people the stuff that the Beatles, Pink Floyd etc. did was legendary, but others could care less. For me, music as an art form took a big nose dive as soon as we shunned away the traditional orchestration in favor of more rock & roll oriented stuff. Some of the best music of today lives on in the form of orchestral arrangements done for movies, games etc.

The production we all value so highly here is in most cases just a plug, to stop all the shit the artist is spewing to spill onto the listener. The filter, the stop the plain simplicity and mediocrity of today's music from reaching the listener without any degree of refinement. There is nothing noble about this line of work. We are all sell-outs, and that's something one ultimately has to come to terms with. When you answer to the label, you are the same brand of shit that they are. You can play the middle ground, as I so often do, but ultimately you've already sold your soul. The artists are the ones that produce art - you just produce a product, ideally one cliche-ridden enough to be fast-fed into the cranium of the brain dead soccer mom tuning into that radio station on the way to work, or that idiotic teenager rebelling for the sake of it to the anthemic tune of his favorite over-edited breakdown.

I figure it's time to stop being hypocritical here, so I'm going to attempt to end my complaining about editing. You can only play both sides for so long. Really, once you get into doing this full time your balls are in their purse. There is no room for integrity here - only port folio expansion, career advancement, production-line work.

Those of you who aren't tied into the industry professionally, you are the ones to make the difference. You are the ones who need to say that you don't want this neatly served dish presenting a fetid, rotting pile of junk food.
 
yes, again for the 3rd time I never tried to say this is the best and only way to record. I was trying to make the point that the sound you're hearing on a lot of records these days has a lot more to do with how it's tracked than how it's mixed.

I'm sure guys like sneap are mostly working with great players where this often isn't necessary. but saying to tell the band to go home and practice is just ridiculous. first of all, I need to make money to live, and second, a lot of bands come from hours away and I'm not gonna just send them home. and to reiterate what Joey said 5 times, it's not always because they can't play, it's because you want it to sound a certain way.

it's part of the job these days, and any up and coming engineer who wants to make it has to go through this before they get to work with the really good guys. if you have the attitude that you're not going to deal with that and just send bands away whenever there's a challenge, sorry but you're not going to work.
 
jval said:
yes, again for the 3rd time I never tried to say this is the best and only way to record. I was trying to make the point that the sound you're hearing on a lot of records these days has a lot more to do with how it's tracked than how it's mixed.
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Forgive me if I get this wrong, but I suppose your post on the first page of this thread implies something different to what you say now:

"This is what I'm talking about, what's weird with this forum. All the modern records you guys are all referencing... killswitch, as I lay dying, joey's work... this is how it's done. "right" or "wrong", who knows... it's just the way it is."
To me, this phrase of yours from the first page implies that this is the best and only way to do that.
 
Dime_Stuff said:
"This is what I'm talking about, what's weird with this forum. All the modern records you guys are all referencing... killswitch, as I lay dying, joey's work... this is how it's done. "right" or "wrong", who knows... it's just the way it is."
To me, this phrase of yours from the first page implies that this is the best and only way to do that.
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exactly, this is the only thing I was referring to...came off a bit talking down knowitall but with little facts to back up such a bold statement.
As I said, I'm not saying working like that is bad or anything...there are situations and styles that make it necessary, I was just saying that the above quoted statement is bullshit.
I'm almost entirely booked out for 2010 already, so it's not that I'm doing this only in my bedroom and don't have any real life experience
 
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