Some help on guitar tone

[Norris-wf]

I've been working on this rough mix and I spent a couple of hours trying to get a half decent guitar tone and I feel there is still something missing. I'm thinking that it may need more gain but I'm not sure so I'd like to get some insight into how some of you would go about improving it. Here is the link:
http://www.lightningmp3.com/live/file.php?id=20379
Some details on the mix:
6505 on the left and JSX on the right, into a marshall 1960a mic'd with a 57 on axis and a 57beta off axis. I applied a small amount of compression to the guitar in the DAW, I think it was a UAD 1176LE.
Any help is greatly appreciated

 

[GuitarHack]

I recommend "going back to basics".

- Choose 1 Amp, use it for both sides.
- Choose 1 Mic, use it for both sides.

The idea of a different amp for each side really makes it hard to get a nice balanced sound. There will always be one amp with a dominant frequency that sticks out on one side and upsets the overall symmetry of the mix IMO.

Think about why you are using more than 1 Mic. Start off with the 57 and get the most defined tone from that and use it as your core tone. If that tone is still lacking something, then try another Mic to add some Low-end, or to remove some High's with Phase Cancellation if needed.... or whatever the case may be.

I am not being critical with this next point, just an observation. The playing isn't very tight between the two sides and pick seems to be hitting the strings fairly softly (eg the riff starting at 1:22). This is killing some of the definition. It does sound a little undergained, but as you may have already found out, raising the Gain may make it sound muddier overall due to the soft picking and loose playing. Some tighter and harder playing will probably allow you to use some more Gain without adding mud.

There shouldn't really be a need to use any compression on the Guitar tracks if you capture the tone correctly. Occasionally there may be a need to use a multi-band Comp to tame some Low-end on Palm-mutes, but usually the amp does all the compressing that is required.

 

[Norris-wf]

Thanks very much for your help Guitarhack. I'll go back to basics so and try again, I know its the best thing to do. I didn't realise that you use one amp for both sides. If you do it this way do you leave them on the exact same settings for left & right?

The reason I included the second mic was that it was making the the tone sound much fuller when I included it, I was getting tips from the 'Clayman' thread but I may have been jumping the gun on that one
You're right about the playing, I was only doing rough mixes to focus on guitar sound so a lil' rough playing wasnt the worst thing. Thanks for the tip on harder playing.
Cheers on the compressor too, thats first to go

 

[GuitarHack]

Yeah, exact same amp settings for each side is fine. The use of a second mic is fine as long as it is adding something beneficial to the tone and not taking any definition away. I would still recommend 1 mic for the time being. I am not sure if you are playing straight into the amp or reamping DI's, but the latter makes it much easier to test amp dialling and Mic techniques. I understand it can be initially expensive to set yourself up with a Reamp box, etc... but it will soon be one of the most valuable tools in your recording chain. Record 1 set of well played DI's and reamp them 100 times using different amp(s) setting, mic(s) placements without the stress of trying to get a pair (or quad) of good takes directly into the amp. My reamp box is the best piece of gear I ever bought. Sanity saver. It's my other gear that causes my insanity.

 

[Norris-wf]

Cool I'll try that out this afternoon so. Same settings and 1 amp.
I've always wanted a re amp box alright to test out, but with a lovely behringer rack DI, that would probably need to be upgraded to so for the moment its not really an option. I understand the benefits of such a system though. Maybe I could put my electronic engineering degree to use and build one
Thanks again for all your feedback, I love this forum!