Sorry

[Shannow]

What do you reckon ?

I think it's a positive step.

Saying Sorry isn't saying "I apologies and accept full responsibility"

I think it needed to be done.

 

[FerretallicA]

I'm sorry this thread exists.

 

[Mark]

I'm glad it finally happened. A hugely-positive step!

 

[Winmar]

Yeah it's about time. It meant a lot to a lot of people. There's an Aboriginal cultural centre round the corner from my work, which has a video of a speech Keating made in Redfern perhaps in about 1994. Watching it last year made me yearn for someone with a bit of vision (even more than I usually did). Now we're getting somewhere.

It was great to see the response Nelson got. Wanker.

 

[Shannow]

I'm sorry this thread exists.

And you are not in any way responsible for this thread, but you can still express your sorrow.

:manhug:

 

[FerretallicA]

And you are not in any way responsible for this thread, but you can still express your sorrow.

:manhug:

Fair call.

 

[Goreripper]

I wondered how long it would take for someone to start this thread: 13 hours! That's a long time.

Personally, I watched the whole thing and found it incredibly moving. It was very well structured and both Rudd and Calma were implicit that it wasn't an issue of guilt but an acknowledgement of a dark part of our past. They were also both clear to point out that it was an apology from the Parliament in their role as lawmakers and not an apology from the Australian people. I think that was very important.

Unfortunately Nelson had to be an apologist for the neo-liberal right wing Stolen Generation deniers. His first day as Opposition leader in the new Parliament and he's already failed.

By the way Steve, have one of my can openers.

 

[Spiff]

I'm all for it, but I'm sick of the redneck idiots who say "I don't want anyone apologising for me!" when K-Rudd has already said it's an apology from the government, not from the people.

A girl at work sent that email that's been going around, the one saying "We're sorry for giving you a better life, sorry for teaching you English, etc" and I had to struggle not to reply with a torrent of abuse.

This is what Kev will be remembered for. They'll be discussing this topic in a hundred years or so and talking about this day.

And Nelson will lose the Liberal leadership by the end of the month.

 

[TinMan666]

i dunno about all this, really. Back when this all went on, it wasn't just aborigines who were removed from their families. Also, with the state that a lot of indiginous communities are in NOW, i can't imagine that (m)any of these kids were just taken for no reason other than being black, i'm sure most of them were removed because they were abused or neglected.

that being said, a lot of them probably ended up in places just as bad or worse than they were removed from.

So... if that's the case then i guess that's something we should acknowledge and be sorry for... but in that "i'm sorry to hear it" sort of way, not an "it's my fault and i apologise" sort of way.

in any case, if it means now that the debate about saying sorry or not is over with and it means people can put their energy towards finding solutions to all the problems we have, it can only be a good thing.

 

[Spiff]

Thing is, I think anyone who thinks this will start any sort of reconciliation process is very naiive. This won't actually change much, if anything. Aborigines will still be treated the same by whitey, and the social problems in the community will remain.

 

[Goreripper]

i dunno about all this, really. Back when this all went on, it wasn't just aborigines who were removed from their families. Also, with the state that a lot of indiginous communities are in NOW, i can't imagine that (m)any of these kids were just taken for no reason other than being black, i'm sure most of them were removed because they were abused or neglected.

Don't you think that the reason Aboriginal communities are in the state they're in is because the system has failed? The hidden agenda behind removing these kids from their parents had nothing to do with their standard of living. They didn't remove full-blood children, only "half castes" because they hoped they could be assimilated. It didn't matter what happened to the full bloods, because it was believed they'd all be wiped out.

that being said, a lot of them probably ended up in places just as bad or worse than they were removed from.

They shouldn't have been removed in the first place. Aboriginals had been able to care for children for 40,000 years without interference from European governments and Christian do-gooders. As I said above, they didn't remove all the children, just the half-white ones, so they could "save" them.

So... if that's the case then i guess that's something we should acknowledge and be sorry for... but in that "i'm sorry to hear it" sort of way, not an "it's my fault and i apologise" sort of way.

No, you've totally missed the point. It was made clear today, several times, that it was the responsibility of the current Parliament to apologise for the laws passed by previous Parliaments that allowed this to happen. And it is. It's not something that "we" as individuals should be made to say sorry for, because it wasn't my fault. It was a government stuff up, so this government should apologise for the wrongs of past governments in the same way that the Pope apologises for things previous Popes have done, for example.

 

[FerretallicA]

The other side to that coin is that Aboriginal attitudes towards the rest of Australia will remain unchanged as well. The only ones who will be appeased by the apology will mostly be those already integrated into mainstream society and with little personal stake in the outcome of it all.

 

[FerretallicA]

Don't you think that the reason Aboriginal communities are in the state they're in is because the system has failed?

Thankyou Mr Mustaine, back to your hangar now

 

[Stonewall]

It wasn't aborigines specifically, but those of mixed-blood who were removed from their parents. The idea was driven by social Darwinist thinking that said if two societies clashed then that which was inferior would slowly become extinct. The idea was to raise these children of mixed blood to identify with white Australian values. Aborigines of full blood were not seen as having much of a future and the intention was to make them dependent upon the state through reservations and rationing. The government saw as its duty to breed out the aboriginal race.

It has always been thinly veiled as a welfare issue, though more strongly since the second world war.



edit: ok, beaten to it.

 

[Winmar]

A girl at work sent that email that's been going around, the one saying "We're sorry for giving you a better life, sorry for teaching you English, etc" and I had to struggle not to reply with a torrent of abuse.

I'm sure they were thinking for 40,000 years, "shit I wish someone would come and teach us English. It'd just be so beneficial". You should have sent her one back, Spiffo.

 

[FerretallicA]

I'm sure they were thinking for 40,000 years, "shit I wish someone would come and teach us English. It'd just be so beneficial". You should have sent her one back, Spiffo.

Well in all fairness they didn't seem to achieve much else with 40,000 years of undisturbed habitation.

 

[Winmar]

Did they really need to though? The arrival of the English didn't help them one jot.

 

[Spiff]

Well whatever they were doing, it was working because they hadn't died out. Not until the Europeans came along and introduced grog and disease and then decided they knew what was best for them.

 

[Mark]

Well in all fairness they didn't seem to achieve much else with 40,000 years of undisturbed habitation.

Achieve much by what measure? They lived a relatively peacefull life, living off the land. What's wrong with that?

 

[Goreripper]

They didn't achieve much according to the standards of modern society. But they had survived for four times as long as "civilization" without agriculture or architecture or any standardised form of religion as we would define it. Just because they weren't interested in building pyramids or sailing around the world doesn't mean they didn't achieve anything. They had no competition from other races, there was no predatory species (except crocs) and they knew how to live in complete harmony with the land. They simply had no need to do those things. You can't base your judgement on what these people "achieved" by comparing them with modern society. That's like comparing how a tree grows with a mushroom.