Starting drum tracking Saturday

[bryan_kilco]

Ok, so my band has spent way too much time creating click tracks, starting to track drums, then plans changing....then getting a new bassist, then realizing he has some knowledge about recording as well as I. Basically, we are taking our drums to his place and going to track there.

We have a bunch of options I guess.....maybe you guys could give a few pointers so I can prepare ahead of time.

Gear available:

ProFire 2626
Presonus (forget which one, 8 input mic pre)
whatever outboard gear comes with PT

shitload of mics...

5 or 6 SM57s
1 SM58
1 SM58 Beta
1 Beta 52
2 Samson C02 Condensors
2 Nady Condensors
about 5 smaller snare/tom mics (Nady? I forget exactly what he as)

He just got PT9 up and running.

I have Reaper.

Kit is a Pearl Export......Heads are...not very new. I wish I could get him to buy new heads but he's currently jobless and ...yeah....

Wish I could give more info on the kit, but I'm not a drummer.

We want to mic front/back, top/bottom of kick and snare, for sure.

1 mic per tom.

now....I've never messed with spot micing cymbals or used more than 2 overheads before. We were thinking about close micing stuff like hats, china, crashes, etc to give a bit of clarity and separation.

I'm kind of concerned about phase issues. I'm pretty new to being able to hear when stuff is in and out of phase. And our new bassist says he never even bothers messing with flipping phase or anything, and just tries to get everything sounding good. But, kick and snare will most definitely be out of phase with 2 mics on each. OHs might be a nightmare.

I think he has a total of 12 inputs with his gear. Is there any way to link up his Presonus to my Profire? I figure, 12 inputs is pretty close to what we'd need.

So, I guess long story short - what would ya'll do with the given gear and mics, and 12 inputs (or more, of we can link up the Profire to the Presonus)?

Cheers.

 

[Tamarocker88]

Kit is a Pearl Export......Heads are...not very new. I wish I could get him to buy new heads but he's currently jobless and ...yeah....
QUOTE]

First off, I'd suggest new heads. Yes, it's going to cost money but it's going to give you better sound to record. It'll make a world's difference. Also, be sure to tune those heads appropriately. Far too many drummers do not know how to appropriately tune heads.

After that's taken care of, considering your concerns about mics being in phase, you might just want to use two overheads to get a good overall sound. If you really want to, then add a room mic or two.

 

[bryan_kilco]

thanks for the response! Going to see how much we have in the band fund to maybe re-skin his whole kit.

Tuning has always been an issue......Mainly toms and kick drum.

These guys are trying to get 7-8 songs done in 2 days on drums. I don't think that's going to happen unless a miracle occurs. We'll probably spend a half day just setting up and getting mics placed.

 

[Tamarocker88]

Tuning has always been an issue......Mainly toms and kick drum. .

Tuning the kick isn't all that hard. A lot of metal drummers I believe keep their bass drum heads really loose, some even go as far as to keep it at a point where there's still some ripples on the batter head. I don't even bother using a Drum Dial on my bass drum, I just go with what sounds good.

As for the toms.... Pay attention to what specific brand and type of heads you buy. Pay attention to single or dual ply, controlled or non-controlled, coated or uncoated. As far as tuning them, it may sound best to tune the batter and resonant heads to the same general tension so that the notes ring out a lot, but this isn't so good from recording (or so I've heard).

I believe you typically want to either have the resonant head tighter than the batter, or vice versa, depending on preference.

If you can afford one, buy a Drum Dial. It will make your life a lot easier. You tune in a normal tuning pattern going through each pair of opposites, making sure they all get to the same tension. It also takes less time to properly tune the drum if you're inexperienced.

 

[Vinny]

These guys are trying to get 7-8 songs done in 2 days on drums. I don't think that's going to happen unless a miracle occurs. We'll probably spend a half day just setting up and getting mics placed.

If you can, let your drumset sit in the tracking for about 24 hours and let it adjust to the temperature/humidity of the room before you record.

 

[Trevoire520]

First off I'm assuming you've read the acoustic drums for metal sticky? If not then go read it now, tons of useful information there.

If the Presonus has a ADAT output and can run as a standalone preamp then you could hook that up to the Profire to get 16 inputs. Or you could do it the other way round. Just make sure to set one to master and one to slave, with the slave taking sync from the ADAT input.

Good heads and tuning is VERY important. In fact if you can't get this right there's almost no point in recording real drums as the results will be awful and you'll just end up replacing the drums with samples later on.

The kick is easy enough to tune, get it finger tight and then between a half and a full turn of the drum key. Throw a feather pillow inside the kick resting against the batter head to help dampen any resonances. Front head on or off is just a matter of preference. I like kicks without a front head as it gives a more dry sound and also makes mic'ing easier. However some guys like the resonance you get with a front head on. Make sure it's got a hole for mic'ing though as you'll never get a decent metal kick sound without it imo.

For general help on tuning toms and snare check out this pdf:
www.peavey.com/support/technotes/misc/drumtuning.pdf

Snare tuning really depends on the snare and the heads. I like my snare batter head to be quite high to get a sharp attack, watch out for ringing though. Resist the initial temptation to deaden the hell out of the head. Get the ring to sound nice and in tune with itself first and then start muting. You'll probably find you get a much livelier sound this way compared to dampening the snare right from the start. If you're struggling to get enough crack then try tuning your reso head a bit tighter. Also experiment with the tension of your snare wires. Too loose and they'll rattle like crazy and generally sound crap, too tight and the drum will sound choked and the snares might not rattle at all on softer hits.

Toms can be a right bastard. Start off with the lowest floor tom and then work your way up, otherwise you might end up tuning your rack toms too low and then have nowhere to go when you get to the floor, causing you to have to start over.
Tuning both heads to the same pitch will give you the most sustain, but this isn't what you want in a recording context generally. Tuning the resonant head higher or lower than the batter will give you some pitch bend and help to control the amount of sustain you get. Normally I find I'm tuning the batter head quite low and the reso head a bit higher to give the drum a nice musical sounding note.

Mic wise you should be ok with the 57's/58's you have. Maybe try the Beta 58 on the snare as you might get better rejection from the hi-hat with it's supercardioid pattern (hi-hat spill from SM57's is horrible)

Throw up both sets of condensers as overheads and see which you like best. Relegate the others to close micing cymbals. You can also use spare 57's etc for micing cymbals seen as you don't have many condensers.

Getting 8 songs done in 2 days is totally reasonable. I just done a drum session on sunday and we got setup and 5 songs done in 5 hours. The only thing that was done in advance was the tuning of the drums. Mind you the drummer was pretty decent so he got through the songs quite quickly.

 

[bryan_kilco]

Vinny - that's the plan! Drums are getting dropped off tonight.

Trevoire - yeah, I have read most of the Acoustic Drum Guide....very good stuff. I kind of wanted an idea of what some of you might do with the gear and mics available. And thanks a lot for your post! I'm going to try to get the guys to get new heads all around if possible. Will keep you updated.

Cheers!

 

[bryan_kilco]

Ok, new heads being bought today. Kit is in its room, waiting patiently.

I guess they quickly placed some mics last night just to save time on Saturday. They have all 4 condensers overhead.....kind of close mic'd cymbals, but I haven't seen the setup yet.

Now, say each OH is a different distance from the snare.....what is the best rule of thumb to start checking phase? Just solo out snare along with each OH and listen and flip phase? Should we really take our time and take measurements and try to set up all the OH mics the same distance from snare? I've tried the 3:1 rule before, and honestly didn't notice much difference compared to just eyeing it up. Also, I seemed to get better results with the OHs up higher while only using a spaced pair. Should we be using all 4 condensers on OHs, or should we use some leftover SM57s to spot mic? I know it's really all a matter of preference, but we aren't going to have unlimited time so I want to get things squared away as quickly as we can. Thank you all.

 

[Trevoire520]

I get the tape measure out and make sure both overheads are the same distance from the snare.