I have at least ten local bands who keep asking me if I can help distribute their music (that I produce) I'm thinking of starting a label. Anyone have experience with this?
STARTING YOUR OWN LABEL-HOW?
- Thread starter Gnash
- Start date
Torniojaws
They call me Juha
1. You need shitloads of money (at least for 10 separate releases in advance, among other expenses)
2. There is a very high probability the company goes bankrupt and you're screwed
3. It takes almost all your time
4. Do not do the book-keeping yourself. Even huge corporations have fallen because of a simple book-keeping typo with tens of professionals
5. You need a lot of contacts all over the world to distribute your releases
Basically, don't do it
But if you do, good luck 
One nationwide hit will get your ass covered for a good while.
2. There is a very high probability the company goes bankrupt and you're screwed
3. It takes almost all your time
4. Do not do the book-keeping yourself. Even huge corporations have fallen because of a simple book-keeping typo with tens of professionals
5. You need a lot of contacts all over the world to distribute your releases
Basically, don't do it
But if you do, good luck One nationwide hit will get your ass covered for a good while.
Loren Littlejohn
Lover of all boobage.
I dunno a small indie label where you just take care of distribution couldn't hurt. Then just take a little off the top for you effort.
The downside is you would need mass duplication
For the most part I agree with torniojaws.
The downside is you would need mass duplication
For the most part I agree with torniojaws.
i have ventured into my own label, but due to the time it consumed, i backed out. but you have an advantage here, and i think that if you set yourself a strong business plan, it shouldnt be too difficult to carry out.
first of all, and the biggest advantage you have, is a group of bands that are in need of help, so they are the best base to a label you could hope for.
what i would suggest is you pick amongst the bands you have worked with, find the ones with the most dedication, and the best music. of course energy is always interchangable with raw talent. from those bands, have them all compile 2-3 songs, if you are an engineer, consider re-recording these songs with your input now, seeing as how you are taking a financial risk by having them on your label. of course you dont need to change their songs, but you will obviously know what sounds better in a final mix, so dont be afraid to flex nuts if you want a different sounding guitar than the guitarist. after all, you guys do all have the same final goal, a sound that will catch the interest of everyone willing to give it a listen.
compile all of the songs for a "sampler" cd. that is the quickest, easiest way to get your bands and your label recognized. the way i did my first(and only) release, was that i pressed all the copies of cd's and sold those to the bands at a price basically half way between what i paid for them personally, and what they can sell the cd for. however, since you are going to have a group of bands from the same general area(i assume) that might be a problem, since they would all be in competition with eachother. the goal of a sampler is to get the name out, so dont expect it to be a major source of income, because if you are looking for instant cash flow, this is the wrong business, start moving blow if you want cash. heh.
if you have any questions, or want to know more of what i have to say, feel free to shoot me a PM.
good luck
first of all, and the biggest advantage you have, is a group of bands that are in need of help, so they are the best base to a label you could hope for.
what i would suggest is you pick amongst the bands you have worked with, find the ones with the most dedication, and the best music. of course energy is always interchangable with raw talent. from those bands, have them all compile 2-3 songs, if you are an engineer, consider re-recording these songs with your input now, seeing as how you are taking a financial risk by having them on your label. of course you dont need to change their songs, but you will obviously know what sounds better in a final mix, so dont be afraid to flex nuts if you want a different sounding guitar than the guitarist. after all, you guys do all have the same final goal, a sound that will catch the interest of everyone willing to give it a listen.
compile all of the songs for a "sampler" cd. that is the quickest, easiest way to get your bands and your label recognized. the way i did my first(and only) release, was that i pressed all the copies of cd's and sold those to the bands at a price basically half way between what i paid for them personally, and what they can sell the cd for. however, since you are going to have a group of bands from the same general area(i assume) that might be a problem, since they would all be in competition with eachother. the goal of a sampler is to get the name out, so dont expect it to be a major source of income, because if you are looking for instant cash flow, this is the wrong business, start moving blow if you want cash. heh.
if you have any questions, or want to know more of what i have to say, feel free to shoot me a PM.
good luck
MetalWorks
Member
Im kinda looking into the same thing.
Some things I have kinda noted along the way.....
In the USA, theres going to be fee's involving Trademarking a name and getting a Tax ID. Could be around $600 to take care of getting my Label formally created as a business.
You need to figure out if your going to be a Corporation etc. Alot of liability and tax concerns to figure out there. LLC is a very popular choice for Indie Labels.
Also should consider whether you want to start your own Publishing as well.
Gotta have legal contracts with the artist. Have to decide how the whole deal is going down. How money will be funded in regards to recording, how it will be recouped from royalties, how royalties are divided, any cash advances to the band, and lots more.
Assume your recording it yourself, saves as a lot of money from the start. Otherwise its possible it could be $5-$10,000 for a good recording.
Most likely you will pay someone else to Master it. Unless again you do it yourself. I know people who master for $75 per hour, 30 minutes per song. So lets say $400 for Mastering around 10 songs.
Gotta have artwork for the CD figured out before you can mass produce it. Gonna do that yourself or pay someone.
Looking around at costs for Manufacturing a CD, Its probably best to start with about 1000 CDs being made. That can be anywhere from $1500 to $2000 give or take. Lets just say $2000 including Artwork.
Now the product will need to be distributed for sale and then advertised. You want your CD available while the adds are running.
The easiest thing you can do for yourself first is to make the CD available for purchase on yours and or the bands websites. Whether they are paying per download in digital format or ordering the complete CD.
I would then plan to start simple by figuring out what cities you will start to sell in and put CD's in stores that sell that genre.
When you know the CD's are available for sale, start the advertising in those cities.
Put a commercial video together advertising the product for sale just like you see on any music television channel.
Run radio adds on shows that play your genre of music. Contact the area cable or satelite company to see about running commercials in target cities durring shows like Headbangers Ball on MTV. I have found that it is inexpensive to do short adds on cable channels.
If you can afford to, try and make a music video and get that played anywhere you can.
And get the band booked on tours especially in the cities you are advertising by radio and tv.
They will need to sell the CD on the road. Also Merch is going to come into play. Alot of bands pay for their own merch and sell it to take all the money in for themselves.
Do as much as you can yourself to get the ball rolling.
Then when CD's start to sell you will be getting some money back and hopefully start turning a profit to buy more CD's and start taking care of the band and further business needs.
Hopefully things just grow from there.
Definately recommend researching the net or some books. There are books on amazon like Start and Run your own Record Label.
I figure after I do my own recording I will need to spend about $3000 to get my business started and get CD's out for sale.
Its going to be a slow process, but I think it will be a fun venture.
Especially because I am not worried about paying for recording and wondering if I am going to recoup the money through sales or not.
If I can sell the first 1000 CD's, I will basically have covered my investment and hopefully started toward profiting.
Some things I have kinda noted along the way.....
In the USA, theres going to be fee's involving Trademarking a name and getting a Tax ID. Could be around $600 to take care of getting my Label formally created as a business.
You need to figure out if your going to be a Corporation etc. Alot of liability and tax concerns to figure out there. LLC is a very popular choice for Indie Labels.
Also should consider whether you want to start your own Publishing as well.
Gotta have legal contracts with the artist. Have to decide how the whole deal is going down. How money will be funded in regards to recording, how it will be recouped from royalties, how royalties are divided, any cash advances to the band, and lots more.
Assume your recording it yourself, saves as a lot of money from the start. Otherwise its possible it could be $5-$10,000 for a good recording.
Most likely you will pay someone else to Master it. Unless again you do it yourself. I know people who master for $75 per hour, 30 minutes per song. So lets say $400 for Mastering around 10 songs.
Gotta have artwork for the CD figured out before you can mass produce it. Gonna do that yourself or pay someone.
Looking around at costs for Manufacturing a CD, Its probably best to start with about 1000 CDs being made. That can be anywhere from $1500 to $2000 give or take. Lets just say $2000 including Artwork.
Now the product will need to be distributed for sale and then advertised. You want your CD available while the adds are running.
The easiest thing you can do for yourself first is to make the CD available for purchase on yours and or the bands websites. Whether they are paying per download in digital format or ordering the complete CD.
I would then plan to start simple by figuring out what cities you will start to sell in and put CD's in stores that sell that genre.
When you know the CD's are available for sale, start the advertising in those cities.
Put a commercial video together advertising the product for sale just like you see on any music television channel.
Run radio adds on shows that play your genre of music. Contact the area cable or satelite company to see about running commercials in target cities durring shows like Headbangers Ball on MTV. I have found that it is inexpensive to do short adds on cable channels.
If you can afford to, try and make a music video and get that played anywhere you can.
And get the band booked on tours especially in the cities you are advertising by radio and tv.
They will need to sell the CD on the road. Also Merch is going to come into play. Alot of bands pay for their own merch and sell it to take all the money in for themselves.
Do as much as you can yourself to get the ball rolling.
Then when CD's start to sell you will be getting some money back and hopefully start turning a profit to buy more CD's and start taking care of the band and further business needs.
Hopefully things just grow from there.
Definately recommend researching the net or some books. There are books on amazon like Start and Run your own Record Label.
I figure after I do my own recording I will need to spend about $3000 to get my business started and get CD's out for sale.
Its going to be a slow process, but I think it will be a fun venture.
Especially because I am not worried about paying for recording and wondering if I am going to recoup the money through sales or not.
If I can sell the first 1000 CD's, I will basically have covered my investment and hopefully started toward profiting.
aramism
Member
you could do anything you want. if you want it then do it!
first thing you need to do is research more to find out what aspects you need to concrete and plan out. you need a solid business plan, a budget, and a good lawyer and surrounding cast.
once you do all this you will need to attract angel investors or partners who are willing to put money up. you need to raise serious capital for 10 bands. you also need to just get involved in the whole scene. the most important part ofany business is having a solid plan and covering as many bases as you could. you also need a great lawyer, intrerview a lot of them...
with a good lawyer and good plan you can attract shareholders and investors to back you financially.
this is one of my goals. i am in the process of setting up my studio as a legit business and saving enough to at least fund 35-50% of the cpaital i will need in the future to either expand the studio or create more of a label type thing. however the amount of $$$ you need to sign bands and promote them even locally is A LOT.
first thing you need to do is research more to find out what aspects you need to concrete and plan out. you need a solid business plan, a budget, and a good lawyer and surrounding cast.
once you do all this you will need to attract angel investors or partners who are willing to put money up. you need to raise serious capital for 10 bands. you also need to just get involved in the whole scene. the most important part ofany business is having a solid plan and covering as many bases as you could. you also need a great lawyer, intrerview a lot of them...
with a good lawyer and good plan you can attract shareholders and investors to back you financially.
this is one of my goals. i am in the process of setting up my studio as a legit business and saving enough to at least fund 35-50% of the cpaital i will need in the future to either expand the studio or create more of a label type thing. however the amount of $$$ you need to sign bands and promote them even locally is A LOT.
Yeah, this label thing will definately need full time attention. I love producing more than anything. I'm NOT a salesman though, so I would need a "convincer" in that regard. It's just a shame, though. All these bands, including mine, that dedicate their life to their music, and get NOWHERE. On the flipside, what happens when "Atlantic" or some big label wants to sign/steal one of my label's artists? Sometimes I think it's a goldmine, but realistically there are HUGE financial and emotional risks.
Sometimes I think it's a goldmine, but realistically there are HUGE financial and emotional risks.
GeertSamuel
Member
You could just start your own label and put your own band on it.
Then it's easier to put your CD's into the shelves at small stores and it's pretty easy to get your CD's on a huge distribution store that does that for the internet..
That's what I'm working on right now...
Then it's easier to put your CD's into the shelves at small stores and it's pretty easy to get your CD's on a huge distribution store that does that for the internet..
That's what I'm working on right now...
Lee_B
Readin' me posts are ya?
Starting a new label in this age of freebie downloading is madness to be fair (which is why I've just started a new one ). It's basically a huge gamble and, like all gambling, don't play with money you can't afford to lose.
I don't really have time to go into the ins and outs of it all, but here's a checklist of the important stuff:
1) Distribution. Distribution is the main issue for any new label. Unfortunately you're not going to get any attention from the major indie distributors in any country unless you've already got 15+ releases under your belt and a commitment (and budget) to advertise / promote your releases. You can spend $20k on an album, but if it's not available in the stores then you're throwing your money away.
There's a way around it though. Many small labels act as mail orders, trading their own CDs with CDs from other small labels. It's time consuming, but build a big enough sales base and you could find that the mail order side of things gets bigger than the label itself (see: The End Records & Laser / Sensory Records). There are also small wholesalers who may take some stock on a consignment basis (IE: they pay for what they sell. You give 'em 250 CDs to sell, they sell 50, you get 200 back, and usually at your own shipping cost).
2) Money. Okay, so you may be able to pick up an album for free from a band who have self recorded or whatever. But there are quite a few other considerations. You have to pay a mechanical royalty on every CD you press (usually in advance). You will have to shell out for artwork, barcodes, mastering and pressing.
Advertising isn't cheap. A half page advert in even a smallish mag like Terrorizer is going to be around the $600 mark. Most labels also press between 500-1000 promo CDs per release 10 weeks in advance for the press. You then gotta get those CDs in the right hands. In the US you can pay upwards of $500 per release (plus postage and expenses) for a press / promotion guy. If you want Europe too then you have to consider at least one extra guy in the main territories like the UK, Germany and France.
There's also stuff like buying into chain store campaigns, tour support, videos (that no one plays), etc, that I won't get into right now.
3) The bands themselves: You have to be realistic about what a band can achieve in the grand scheme of things. Where hundreds of labels fail at the first hurdle is when a well-meaning guy picks up a local band he's seen at a local bar and thinks they'll become superstars. That may well be the case, but if you don't have a good foundation to be able to get the band in the public eye then it's doomed to failure from the get go. Also, are the band known outside of their home town (20,000 plays on Myspace doesn't count)? Do they have ambition beyond pulling 200 folks at a local show? Will they get their arses on the road to promote the record (studio projects by rule of thumb sell half of what a touring band could expect to sell).
4) No bullshit: Don't promise bands the world when you can't back it up with real life happenings. It seems obvious, but I've seen it 1000 times in the past.
Looking at it entirely from my own band's perspective: We have had some decent press including interviews in Kerrang, Metal Hammer, Metal Maniacs, Terrorizer, Zero Tolerence, etc. Decent advertising to back it up. We shot an expensive (looking!) video, have played with Dream Theater and toured the UK, have close to 300,000 Myspace plays, we gave away over 1000 demo CDs before we got signed, etc, etc. Total worldwide sales to date? About 4500. That includes the 350 or so we've sold direct via Myspace and at shows (we've sold more shirts than CDs on Myspace actually, maybe because you can't download a shirt for free?). 1800 of those sales are here in the UK which is undoubtedly our biggest market. The fact that our label is pretty happy with that return may tell you about the present state of the market right now. They recently released an album (I won't say who) that got great press, was advertised all over the place and still only sold 600 worldwide...
Like I say it's madness to try and start a label right now, but if you're confident in the bands you have signed, if you have enough contacts within the industry and you're sure you're in a position to be able to give it your best shot the don't let me stop you.
I'm off to drink more beer. I shall check back if anyone has any comments or questions.
). It's basically a huge gamble and, like all gambling, don't play with money you can't afford to lose. I don't really have time to go into the ins and outs of it all, but here's a checklist of the important stuff:
1) Distribution. Distribution is the main issue for any new label. Unfortunately you're not going to get any attention from the major indie distributors in any country unless you've already got 15+ releases under your belt and a commitment (and budget) to advertise / promote your releases. You can spend $20k on an album, but if it's not available in the stores then you're throwing your money away.
There's a way around it though. Many small labels act as mail orders, trading their own CDs with CDs from other small labels. It's time consuming, but build a big enough sales base and you could find that the mail order side of things gets bigger than the label itself (see: The End Records & Laser / Sensory Records). There are also small wholesalers who may take some stock on a consignment basis (IE: they pay for what they sell. You give 'em 250 CDs to sell, they sell 50, you get 200 back, and usually at your own shipping cost).
2) Money. Okay, so you may be able to pick up an album for free from a band who have self recorded or whatever. But there are quite a few other considerations. You have to pay a mechanical royalty on every CD you press (usually in advance). You will have to shell out for artwork, barcodes, mastering and pressing.
Advertising isn't cheap. A half page advert in even a smallish mag like Terrorizer is going to be around the $600 mark. Most labels also press between 500-1000 promo CDs per release 10 weeks in advance for the press. You then gotta get those CDs in the right hands. In the US you can pay upwards of $500 per release (plus postage and expenses) for a press / promotion guy. If you want Europe too then you have to consider at least one extra guy in the main territories like the UK, Germany and France.
There's also stuff like buying into chain store campaigns, tour support, videos (that no one plays), etc, that I won't get into right now.
3) The bands themselves: You have to be realistic about what a band can achieve in the grand scheme of things. Where hundreds of labels fail at the first hurdle is when a well-meaning guy picks up a local band he's seen at a local bar and thinks they'll become superstars. That may well be the case, but if you don't have a good foundation to be able to get the band in the public eye then it's doomed to failure from the get go. Also, are the band known outside of their home town (20,000 plays on Myspace doesn't count)? Do they have ambition beyond pulling 200 folks at a local show? Will they get their arses on the road to promote the record (studio projects by rule of thumb sell half of what a touring band could expect to sell).
4) No bullshit: Don't promise bands the world when you can't back it up with real life happenings. It seems obvious, but I've seen it 1000 times in the past.
Looking at it entirely from my own band's perspective: We have had some decent press including interviews in Kerrang, Metal Hammer, Metal Maniacs, Terrorizer, Zero Tolerence, etc. Decent advertising to back it up. We shot an expensive (looking!) video, have played with Dream Theater and toured the UK, have close to 300,000 Myspace plays, we gave away over 1000 demo CDs before we got signed, etc, etc. Total worldwide sales to date? About 4500. That includes the 350 or so we've sold direct via Myspace and at shows (we've sold more shirts than CDs on Myspace actually, maybe because you can't download a shirt for free?). 1800 of those sales are here in the UK which is undoubtedly our biggest market. The fact that our label is pretty happy with that return may tell you about the present state of the market right now. They recently released an album (I won't say who) that got great press, was advertised all over the place and still only sold 600 worldwide...
Like I say it's madness to try and start a label right now, but if you're confident in the bands you have signed, if you have enough contacts within the industry and you're sure you're in a position to be able to give it your best shot the don't let me stop you.
I'm off to drink more beer. I shall check back if anyone has any comments or questions.
A small label is not a small venture. Even a small marketing budget for a band, you are looking at 50 grand. Now multiply that by four bands. And now comes the fun part, getting you money back and turning profit. Only problem, is that the chances of that happening is rough even for BIG labels, which is why 10% of a big labels SUCCESSFUL artists pay for the 90% that don't go anywhere. Fun fun music industry ey?
Brett - K A L I S I A
Dreaded Moderator
Awesome reading Lee thanks a lot!!! But instead of drinking beer, shouldn't you be packing up for you Central European Tour
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