Sturgis Sample Processing Ideas/Techniques/Help?

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shadowshadow

New Metal Member
Sep 27, 2011
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Sup, dudes. First post. I really need some help!
I'll be sure to be real noob-like so you guys can tear my ass to shreds, and then hopefully get one response that actually helps hahahaha.

Anyway, I got Sturgis' Black and Gold. I mean, who doesn't.
I'm programming my drums in Logic, but, I'm using it's dated EXS24 due to the fact that I don't have any money to grab up Kontakt. I was able to round robin the samples so it doesn't "machine gun".

So, here's the problem. The drums sound like shit. Period.
I've tried scooping them to help them to sit in my mix.
Even though I've read Joey doesn't, I've been trying to add very slight amounts of reverb to snare, and sometimes toms, to "air out" the plastic attack sound I can't get away from.
That sounds like shit.

Within the same bar/measure, I don't use the same velocity on the same drum/cymbal twice. I'm a beginner's drum instructor, so, not that I'm god or anything, but, anyone who's looked at a drumset knows you can't duplicate the same sound at a perfect, consistent volume. Ever.
Still sounds like shit.

I want to blame EXS24, just because it was free with Logic/not kontakt/blah blah blah. I've also thought about getting some Slate shit, but, EVERYONE uses Slate, and for good reason, but, I doubt the sample library is the problem.

I'm not a genius engineer. So, I want to blame myself as long as I can before putting more money into programming drums ... just to hear it sound like shit.

I can post examples, clips, etc, if that helps who ever is gracious enough to help me with my essay of a problem, help me.

Are there any general processing techniques that I should know in regards to programmed drums/Sturgis samples and just haven't seen in these various posts? I've literally searched for the past three days because I'm straight up fed up. Up. Down. Left. Right. A. Start.

If you read this whole post, +1 to you out the gates.
 
1. Clips
2. Clips
3. Well... Clips!

It's near impossible for us to get you anywhere if we can't hear what you are working with. Don't feel embarrassed or anything to post clips if you dont think it is up to par, we are here to help you. Almost none of us (including Sturgis) would be where we are without these forums (mainly talking about the Sneap forum, but some newbies have gotten a bit of help from this one too).

Anyway. Even though Logic is my main DAW, I have never used EXS24 before, but I can't imagine it is the sampler making your drums sound bad. No sampler should affect the quality of the samples (unless you have built-in effects on the sampler that you put on the samples.) BUT, it truly is worth the $$$ picking up Kontakt just because of everything you can do with it if you plan to take your audio engineering to the next level.
I don't own any of Joey's full kits, but I do own the MMI snare and some cymbals. They do need a bit of compression and eq-ing to get it in the right ball-park (pretty much every un-processed sample will anyway).
What is your definition of "scooping"? The only time I really "scoop" drums is the 250-400hz area of the kick drum. Provided the samples, I dont really see where "scooping" would be effective on anything else in the drum kit (from hearing the audio clip of those samples on Joey's site.) So that may be one of the issues.
Also- are you eq-ing your drums individually, or as a whole group?
As far as the reverb thing- I'm not sure where you got that from. Snare and Tom reverb is almost essential to getting the drums sit right in the mix (along with a good room sound). I am 100% positive Joey uses reverb on his drums. Just don't go overboard with it. And try to use it very sparingly on the kick, if at all.
I should also add that compression is ESSENTIAL to getting a good drums tone. Pretty much EVERY part of the kit gets a pretty good amount of compression.

I can't go into great detail about compression/EQ/Reverb/etc but you will find all you need to know if you just keep looking on the Sturgis AND Sneap forums. But hopefully this will get you started in the right direction. Remember, EVERYONE sucks in their first year of pursuing audio production. It's a fact. And I mean EVERYONE lol. So don't get discouraged. Research, Research, Research. Spend all your free time reading up on stuff and experimenting.

And again, please post a clip so we know where you are coming from.

Cheers mate and good luck!
 
Any drum sample library needs processing...be it slate, superior, or joey's...depending on the other instruments, mix, or arrangement, you'd need different approaches. Compression, eq, blending in other samples is pretty standard in drum mixing IME

And EXS, while I know it's less powerful compared to kontakt, is not the one to blame. It just takes work to make any sample lib to sit in a mix.
 
i disagree.

pretty much every drum library with the exception of superior drummer sounds awful with dynamics processing (imo). maybe a little transient designer and a tiny bit of +/- equalization (like with slate)... but other than that, it tends to sound over processed (depending on the choices).

slate, sturgis and addictive drums etc. are all completely processed/blended from the get-go so i don't think they were intended to be processed in the mix.

but i could be totally wrong.
 
timislegend said:
slate, sturgis and addictive drums etc. are all completely processed/blended from the get-go so i don't think they were intended to be processed in the mix.
Click to expand...

I think the exception there is AD. Unless you use the kit presets, which I almost never do, I find that the samples are all pretty raw by themselves. Definitely the most "real" sounding out of the 3. I always process them quite a bit externally and they seem to handle it well. SSD, on the other hand, is already pretty processed and too much more just makes it sound like shit.
 
Scott Horner said:
I think the exception there is AD. Unless you use the kit presets, which I almost never do, I find that the samples are all pretty raw by themselves. Definitely the most "real" sounding out of the 3. I always process them quite a bit externally and they seem to handle it well. SSD, on the other hand, is already pretty processed and too much more just makes it sound like shit.
Click to expand...

Completely agree.
Sturgis samples are pretty raw and therefore do need a bit of processing.
 
Thanks for the quick replies, dudes.
I hellov appreciate it!
I definitely feel like I've posted my concerns in the right place and it has fallen into the right hands!

@vinny: dude, i hear about the clipping technique a lot, but, honestly, i just don't grasp what needs to be done.

but, i'll be posting a clip later today when i have a little more time on my hands!

i'm thinking of just posting a drum track to take my mixing problems one step at at time, hahaha. drums are always just my focal point at the moment because, to me, if your drums/drummer sound like shit, there's nothing that can be done from that point on. it's the foundation.

BUT, if it would be better to show you completely how shitty everything is at once, let me know, and i'll post a clip from a band i just finished recording, if it is found easier to receive assistance this way!

thanks again to you all in advance!
i know i'm going to be a couple steps forward with the help i'll receive from all of you.
 
Post a full mix dude (vox optional) It's difficult to say what needs to be done without it being in the context of a whole mix.

I would also like to fully understand what clipping does. I have a free clipper vst that I've messed with, I just dont know what it's purpose is. From what I grasp, it looks/acts like a limiter...?
 
shadowshadow said:
Thanks for the quick replies, dudes.
I hellov appreciate it!
I definitely feel like I've posted my concerns in the right place and it has fallen into the right hands!

@vinny: dude, i hear about the clipping technique a lot, but, honestly, i just don't grasp what needs to be done.

but, i'll be posting a clip later today when i have a little more time on my hands!

i'm thinking of just posting a drum track to take my mixing problems one step at at time, hahaha. drums are always just my focal point at the moment because, to me, if your drums/drummer sound like shit, there's nothing that can be done from that point on. it's the foundation.

BUT, if it would be better to show you completely how shitty everything is at once, let me know, and i'll post a clip from a band i just finished recording, if it is found easier to receive assistance this way!

thanks again to you all in advance!
i know i'm going to be a couple steps forward with the help i'll receive from all of you.
Click to expand...

Ha, I never mentioned anything about "clipping."
I meant for you to post a clip of your song. (audio sample)
Sorry for the confusion hahaha
 
here's a song i did for a band using Joey's samples. i feel like its a pretty decent mix, and then drums have only a TINY eq on them, and a little verb on the snare.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y33cLJ7huhU&feature=share[/ame]

it may just be what's around the drums that you don't like about them, if that makes any sense. or a you're only as strong as your weakest link?!
 
I use to have almost the exact same problem. If you can't get kontakt, seriously buy aptrigga. It's like $50US and once I worked out how to use it properly, my drums instantly sounded better. Not a stack of eq/effects on joey's samples are needed if its coming through a decent sampler, the right amount of compression and just listening how it sits with corresponding instruments. eg: kick drum with bass, is what you will need. They're great samples, the logic ESX24 or whatever it is just messes with them. Hopefully this helps :)
 
Shadow, I personally don't think theres really much need for Compressor when dealing with samples. All you would need is Transients, EQ and maybe if you want a limit to clip.
But man, trust your ears:) If you decide to put on a limiter and all it does is wash away the snap/crack, then go without, work your way around it using other tools. In the end its not what you do with it or what it looks like in your DAW or in its settings...its how it sounds in the mix. Experimenting :D
 
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