Sweeping Solos

!Aviso! said:
Practice your sweep arpeggios without fretting the notes. Just play them with one hand, legato. Concentrate on making them rhythmically precise and making each note sound individually, without the pick. Hammer-on every note "from nowhere."

This will only work with one of the inversions of the triad arpeggios. In all of the other ones you need to bar a finger and, you cant really hammer on with a barred finger. I also kinda disagree with this because, while its great for the left hand, the focus should be on coordination between both hands, which is extremely important with sweeping.
 
I have to agree with Yngvai X. Synchronization with both hands is one of the most important thing a guitarist can achieve. Just learn the different types of sweeps, the fingering, and practice them every day. The only way to become good at your trade is to spend a lot of time learning and practicing it. And I'm not talking an hour every other day, I'm talking at least 3 hours a day everyday. Don't get me wrong there are a few chosen ones whom don't have to do a damn thing and they excel in it, but that is rare. Just get your practicing together.
 
Yngvai X said:
This will only work with one of the inversions of the triad arpeggios. In all of the other ones you need to bar a finger and, you cant really hammer on with a barred finger. I also kinda disagree with this because, while its great for the left hand, the focus should be on coordination between both hands, which is extremely important with sweeping.

Two things here:

1 - With regard to barre-ing, this issue can be easily overcome by hammering or pulling in the middle of the arpeggio and continuing the arpeggio in a different position as a result... something a good sweep-picker should be practicing anyway. Other easy ways to overcome this problem: string-skipping, just using a different position on the neck, or hammering each note in the barre with different fingers instead of insisting on a barre (it's possible).

The only reason the barre-ing thing should ever be an issue (in my opinion) is if you're fixated on one specific PATTERN, instead of thinking about the arpeggio you're playing as its NOTES relate to the passage.


2 - Everyone can move the pick super-fast. It's NEVER the right hand that's failing when your hands aren't synchronized. It's always the left hand. My method of practicing sweeps directly addresses the problem. Moreover, if your left hand is TOTALLY comfortable with the sweep you're playing, adding in the right hand is EASIER than if you only practice with both hands all the time.

But don't take my word for it. Next time you practice, record yourself playing a few sweeps after your warm-up. Then, spend 20 minutes practicing without your right hand, my way, pure legato. Then, go back and record yourself playing the same sweeps you recorded beforehand... You'll be shocked at how much of a difference it makes.

Just try it once, you've got nothing to lose. If it doesn't change your mind, then I'll eat my words and start practicing your way from now on. ;) :)
 
Aviso, you are awesome. First, the amp thing, now this. You probably are right, because your advice ALWAYS kicks ass. (btw, I still need a new amp, because my amp is starting to fuck up horribly. More of that in my Amp thread.) The only question I have is when you say to practice the sweeps in legato, do you mean like 1/4 the speed of which I plan on writing, because thats what my guitar teacher says to do.
 
ptah knemu said:
Aviso, you are awesome. First, the amp thing, now this. You probably are right, because your advice ALWAYS kicks ass. (btw, I still need a new amp, because my amp is starting to fuck up horribly. More of that in my Amp thread.) The only question I have is when you say to practice the sweeps in legato, do you mean like 1/4 the speed of which I plan on writing, because thats what my guitar teacher says to do.

Thanks for the kind words. :)

In regard to speed, the most common approach is to start out as slow as it takes for you to fret the passage precisely, without mistakes, and gradually build speed.

I think that approach is correct in principle, but I have noticed that sometimes people have to "push themselves" a little harder than this. You may find that you'll build speed a little faster if you ATTEMPT to play something faster than you know you can.

Everyone's a little different in this respect. Some people find it better to use a metronome and increase the speed by 5 bpm for several weeks... Personally, that approach doesn't help me. What I do is over the course of say 5 minutes, I start out slowly and repeat the passage over and over, gradually building speed until I "max out" and I'm going as fast as I can without making mistakes. I do this every day, until after a week or two I am able to play the passage as fast as I want to.
 
!Aviso! said:
Two things here:

1 - With regard to barre-ing, this issue can be easily overcome by hammering or pulling in the middle of the arpeggio and continuing the arpeggio in a different position as a result... something a good sweep-picker should be practicing anyway. Other easy ways to overcome this problem: string-skipping, just using a different position on the neck, or hammering each note in the barre with different fingers instead of insisting on a barre (it's possible).

But then you're ignoring those particular arpeggio shapes. You want to play the intro to Smoke and Mirrors? You have to play those barre shapes. You want to play Serrana? You have to play barring shapes. Don't get me wrong, Im sure this mode of practicing works for you, but you seem to be looking at it like "well, I can't fit those shapes into how I practice, so just don't do them."

2 - Everyone can move the pick super-fast. It's NEVER the right hand that's failing when your hands aren't synchronized. It's always the left hand.

Wrong. The issue isn't speed, its synchronization. I've seen lots of guys who can move their right hand very fast and who can also move their left hand fingers very fast, but they're not synchronized so it sounds sloppy as shit. Perhaps for *you* the issue remains soley within the left hand, but the right hand needs to develop control as well. Of course when sweeps reach really high speeds the right hand looks like its not doing much other than raking across however many strings really fast, but the point is, there is a large amount of control that (should be) present. And you should have that control at *any* speed, not just fast speeds. The issue of control is even more apparent when economy picking.

Conversely to what you are saying, I've had some of my students practice just their right hand technique when sweeping so the pick attack is extremely even and they aren't rushing (especially when doing a series of successive downstrokes in a row) by just doing the right hand motion while muting the strings with the left hand.

There is nothing wrong with your practice suggestion and like I've pointed out in the previous paragraph Im no stranger to isolating one of the two hands if I find theres a problem with it. The only thing that urked me about your previous post was the blanket statement that the right hand is *never* the reason your hands aren't synched up, because quite often it can be for many players.
 
yeah, i'm out of hiding...must express my opinion. Matt's right. If you practiced them legato alot, your picking might fall behind. Sweeps are 100% synchronization! The picking hand is not always super fast. My left hand can move pretty fast at times, therefore fucking my sync up. YOU ARE WRONG!
 
Yngvai X said:
But then you're ignoring those particular arpeggio shapes. You want to play the intro to Smoke and Mirrors? You have to play those barre shapes. You want to play Serrana? You have to play barring shapes. Don't get me wrong, Im sure this mode of practicing works for you, but you seem to be looking at it like "well, I can't fit those shapes into how I practice, so just don't do them."


Well, I guess it's important to you to play arpeggio shape X, Y, and Z. That's okay for you, but I fundamentally disagree with this approach to guitar playing. When playing a fast passage, what's important (to me) are the notes, not the shapes. You can and should play any arpeggio more than one way, even if you're playing fast. The pattern is unimportant (to me). The notes tell the whole story.

If you're learning to play by shapes and patterns then you're essentially applying the Suzuki Method to guitar. If it works for you, then that's okay, but this is a serious pedogogical difference in perspective that you and I have, and one that is frequently debated among music educators.



YngvaiX said:
Wrong. The issue isn't speed, its synchronization. I've seen lots of guys who can move their right hand very fast and who can also move their left hand fingers very fast, but they're not synchronized so it sounds sloppy as shit. Perhaps for *you* the issue remains soley within the left hand, but the right hand needs to develop control as well. Of course when sweeps reach really high speeds the right hand looks like its not doing much other than raking across however many strings really fast, but the point is, there is a large amount of control that (should be) present. And you should have that control at *any* speed, not just fast speeds. The issue of control is even more apparent when economy picking.


Well, one thing I think you're ignoring is the fact that you can AFFORD to miss with your right hand if your left hand is playing precisely. This, once again, is a difference in pedogogical perspective between us. The fact of the matter is that if you can play these arpeggios effectively without using the pick at all, you can play the song or the solo in question. How important is it really to use the pick if you don't have to?

It comes down to whether you feel like you're playing an arpeggio made up of individual notes that relate to a song, or whether you feel like you're playing a sweep-picking pattern.

Ideally, both hands should be perfectly synchronized. As I said before, if your left hand can play these arpeggios without effort, then it is NOT difficult to add the right hand in later if you decide it's necessary (but it's not).


YngvaiX said:
Conversely to what you are saying, I've had some of my students practice just their right hand technique when sweeping so the pick attack is extremely even and they aren't rushing (especially when doing a series of successive downstrokes in a row) by just doing the right hand motion while muting the strings with the left hand.


The problem I have with this is that muting the strings and practicing your sweeps doesn't make any music, it only makes a ticking sound against the muted strings. How much fun is that? Not much fun.... Practicing the left-hand-only still makes the notes sound, despite the fact that you're not using the pick. Of the two, I would rather my students be making music than ticking sounds. It's a difference of opinion, I guess...
 
!Aviso! said:
Well, I guess it's important to you to play arpeggio shape X, Y, and Z. That's okay for you, but I fundamentally disagree with this approach to guitar playing. When playing a fast passage, what's important (to me) are the notes, not the shapes. You can and should play any arpeggio more than one way, even if you're playing fast. The pattern is unimportant (to me). The notes tell the whole story.

If you're learning to play by shapes and patterns then you're essentially applying the Suzuki Method to guitar. If it works for you, then that's okay, but this is a serious pedogogical difference in perspective that you and I have, and one that is frequently debated among music educators.

When improvising, 95% of guitarists play pre-learned (rehearsed, practiced etc) patterns and shapes. Take a look at the solos that any of these guys do...Romeo, Becker, Yngwie, Petrucci...its all pre learned shapes that they apply in different ways. But therein lies the key...its the application of these learnt fingerings that makes something musical.

What you are talking about is completely "free" playing, and theres only one person I've ever heard or seen that plays like that, and thats Allan Holdsworth.



Well, one thing I think you're ignoring is the fact that you can AFFORD to miss with your right hand if your left hand is playing precisely. This, once again, is a difference in pedogogical perspective between us. The fact of the matter is that if you can play these arpeggios effectively without using the pick at all, you can play the song or the solo in question. How important is it really to use the pick if you don't have to?

Well if the passage is picked then, yes it is important to use it. Picking and not picking provide two different sounds and IMO its important to learn to use both. Why limit yourself? And if you think you can afford to be off the mark with your right hand then you're pretty much saying its ok to sacrifice cleanliness. Clean, accurate playing comes from total accuracy from both hands. So no, if you can't play a passage that is supposed to be picked then you can't play it.


It comes down to whether you feel like you're playing an arpeggio made up of individual notes that relate to a song, or whether you feel like you're playing a sweep-picking pattern.

What may come off as a "sweep picking pattern" to you might serve an extremely musical purpose. Just because its a pre-learned shape doesn't mean its musically defunct. Again, considering the forum we're on, look at all the arpeggio stuff Romeo does...*all of it* relies on very standard Yngwie/Becker style sweep shapes and those 7th chord tapping shapes he does (which in nearly every song of his I've transcribed where he does them they're in the same root position inversion). Is he playing just shapes? Yes. Is it musical? I think so. Again, its the application.

Ideally, both hands should be perfectly synchronized. As I said before, if your left hand can play these arpeggios without effort, then it is NOT difficult to add the right hand in later if you decide it's necessary (but it's not).

Im guessing you seem to think that the sweep motion is easy enough that it can be added in with no work applied to synchronization...ok...but can you really tell me its that easy to just "add in" the right hand to some extremely fast and intricate alternate picking to a scale run or whatnot if your left hand can do it well? Just curious as to what your opinion is on that.

The problem I have with this is that muting the strings and practicing your sweeps doesn't make any music, it only makes a ticking sound against the muted strings. How much fun is that? Not much fun.... Practicing the left-hand-only still makes the notes sound, despite the fact that you're not using the pick. Of the two, I would rather my students be making music than ticking sounds. It's a difference of opinion, I guess...

I want my students to improve their technique. Sometimes practice isn't always "fun." Sometimes its a lot of boring repetative work. But the point is, it pays off in the end. Theres a quote that Tom Hanks' character in "A League of their Own" (a retired baseball star) says about baseball that is applicable to developing technique on an instrument as well (Im paraphrasing here): "Its supposed to be hard...if it was easy everyone would do it. The hard is what makes it fun."
 
So far, what I've been doing is trying to take both of your advices at once, and practice each method one at a time. Like I'll spend 20 minutes practicing the left hand technique. Then, I'll switch to Right hand. After that, I'll try putting them together, and see what I get. I'm preacticing each one equally, so that each hand's technique grows in equal proportion, and so one doesn't get too good. So far, I've been starting off easy, with sweeps that resemble upside down 7's or Z's, like this:

e------5-6-8------- I'm just trying to start out easy, because I'm not
B----6------------- exactly the best guitarrist, or the best with sweeps.
G--7--------------- This is just from me trying to take all the advice that
D------------------ everybody's had to offer, which has been great
A------------------ BTW, and merging them all to combine them for one
E------------------ method that works for me.

I've been practicing slowly, my left hand technique, as well as my right, to get a good even balance of progression.

BTW Yngvai, where in New York do you teach?
 
ptah knemu said:
Yngvai, where in New York do you teach?

I teach both out of a music store in Hampton Bays and also out of my house in Westhampton Beach...both are way out east on Long Island...I've been wanting to relocate closer to the city cause Im just not getting the student turnout I really need. Theres not a whole lot of anything going on around here, unless you're a prepped out hamptonite who excels at spending daddy's money and being a giant doosh...so needless to say I don't fit in very well to begin with ;). If you've ever been unfortunate enough to see the movie "White Chicks" I live about 40 min or so west of where that movie takes place (and yes, the people out here are really like that).
 
I never saw White Chicks, but I have been out to the Hamptons. Ouch. I wouldn't last a day out there.
 
is it not a little soon for you to be learning sweeping solos :)

ptah have you checked the guitar chapter tabs on the main site page? They help a lot for fingering skills
 
Dark Lucidity said:
is it not a little soon for you to be learning sweeping solos :)

ptah have you checked the guitar chapter tabs on the main site page? They help a lot for fingering skills

I don't think it's too early to learn how to sweep. 3 years may not seem too long, but it's been long enough for me to be able to shredd crazily, so I wanted to take the next step in soloing.

Actually, about the Guitar Chapter, not too long ago, there was a thread that lasted like 2 hours until I think it was deleted, which had a link to a site where you could download The Guitar Chapter, and other videos. Luckily, I happened to sign on here during that half hour, and got the video for the strict purpose of nailing my solos. It's an awesome video.

(this will probably bring back up the subject of Piracy from the Frontiers thread)
 
Almost all the people that I know are musically educated, and yes, I have tried sweeping random notes for the musically stupid people. They loved it, until the musically smart people killed their metaphorical buzz.
 
ptah knemu said:
Almost all the people that I know are musically educated, and yes, I have tried sweeping random notes for the musically stupid people. They loved it, until the musically smart people killed their metaphorical buzz.

If you ever want a cheap way to "wow" musically inept people, just do some tapping. Doesn't matter how complicated it is, works every time.