Symphony X in Decibel magazine

DoomsdayZach said:
I'll first say that yeah, this debate has been fun and glad that it hasn't degenerated into "UR A FAG!!!" :lol:

I've had a few beers, and i understand what you're saying, but my gut (aka stubborn-ness) tells me i still disagree. I'll get back to you later :lol:
Click to expand...

lol.....wait...no...UR A FAG! :p
 
Haha, i seriously lol'd. I really don't know that i have anything else to add to the discussion other than NO U!!! But in all seriousness, looks like we have differing opinions and ideas, that's cool. Damn, that was a fun debate. Cheers.
 
Can we now decide the winner of the ultimate debate battle number one?!? :p

...I'd lean a little more on Zach's side, cause I also think that if you try to get someone into new type of music, it's good strategy to try to first show the similarities to the music they already like. (Can't say it more clearly). Anyway, SymphXjapan has good points too.
 
Maybe if you keep me debating I will get my post numbers up. I have been around this board since V came out and I haven't even hit 500 posts yet. I just feel that most of the stuff that goes on around here in the last couple of years has not given me enough interest to post anything. There used to be a lot of fun and interesting threads back in the day but I also haven't seen a lot of the older people around here in a while. I just don't feel the need to post to have a bunch of posts...
 
Now that I think about it the "fun" posts I remember were things that required debate and such. I guess there are a lot of people around here now that can't handle a debate maturally without getting offended. There used to be mature debate around here were people didn't get all riled up and such.
 
I think a lot of the "fun" posts (and this is coming from me, who generally is just here to be an asshole :lol: ) that used to exist have been worn out. I know the new guys love to discuss things such as "Dream Setlist", "Possible dvd?" and "Romeo vs Petrucci", but unfortunately those topics have been beaten to death over the years for a good portion of us. That doesn't mean new folks can't discuss those topics (except vs. stuff haha!) but it does make things less interesting around here.

That said, this discussion was fun as hell... i'd love for other people to jump in. It doesn't have to be myself and SXJ going back n' forth.

Wander: I'd be delighted to elaborate further my thoughts on the subject, as it involves me sharing my opinion which happens to be one of my favorite things to do in life :lol:

I think that most people don't want to just dive into an unknown or unfamiliar genre with no direction. Even within specific sub-genres, bands sound completely different from one another and the quality varies (obviously). Sometimes you have to relate to something that's actually up your alley and conflicts with what you've made up in your mind.

I've got tons of examples of this, but i'll go for my recent Manowar example. Now, i enjoy some power / true metal, but Manowar always crossed the line of "fun" to "just fucking awful". I only heard a few songs here and there, but mostly just bitched about how cheesy they are. I did, however, enjoy the track "Warriors of the World United" because of how unbelievably bad yet fun it was. It was catchy as aids. Then i had to listen to the new Sons of Odin ep (which has two songs from the abysmal new album). Those two tracks were the best of the album, but still they clicked with me somehow and i got all pissed because i actually was legitimately enjoying some Manowar.

This next part is going to make me sound like a poser and is exactly what SXJ is saying shouldn't have to happen, but it is reality a lot of the time...

I was talking to a buddy about it (well, bitching that i actually liked some manowar) and he happens to enjoy a fair few tracks. Since i was basically saying it was "ok" for me to like manowar now, he started sending me some of their better tracks which made me realize that underneath all the cheese, there's some great songs and vocal lines. Sure, you have to appreciate how bad some of the lyrics are and you can't take it too seriously, but it doesn't take away from the fact that there's some killer stuff.

Haha, look at me... even now i have to justify enjoying manowar. The point is, there needs to be an entry point. Death vocals are something that's hard for people to overcome a lot of the time, and likewise if you are into death metal, sometimes it takes having to justify to yourself that it's "ok" to enjoy something. Now, those are two different concepts completely (auditory asthetic versus personal bias) but at the same time they have a lot in common: both can be overcome by finding a common thread with something you already love and latching onto that.
 
The nightwish thread that's going on just made me realize another very important point that ties in perfectly with my arguements that sometimes people need the push. The attitude of the listener always greatly impacts their enjoyment of an album. If you go into something thinking "no way i'm going to like it, i hate this style and i hate what this band has done the last few albums" then you will probably focus on the negative elements instead of what you could potentially enjoy.

That's why if there's something i don't like but it gets a lot of praise from people, even if i hate it i always try to ask "Well what's good about it?" If someone can pinpoint specific things that i can listen to, be it a specific melody that's tucked away near the end of a song or a specific lyric that really hits me, i'll probably start listening to the song at least to hear that specific thing. Then i may venture out on my own once i familiarize myself with the style. Attitude and open-mindedness do play a big role (just like SXJ said that people should do on their own) but sometimes you need the push from someone who is more knowledgable.
 
Well, getting riled up is fine. I was hella riled yesterday for the majority of this debate, but as we joked about earlier, you come back with points on your side and examples, not creative name-calling.

which sucks, because i love creative namecalling... you cuntwaffle.
 
Hello ! Were the last two posts I just read really written by Doomsday or does someone have a sick sence of humor ? Somehow I just think theres gonna be hell to pay when he realizes he just went soft, showed openmindedness and put it in writing for all to see............ bad day for you Dude ! Your done! lol
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Onward:
Actually when I came I tried open discussion and got nothing but alot of one liner face slaps, drive by shootings, gang raped, grammer corrections, topics were closed. I got pissed and gave some of it back, put on ignore lists and now no one will talk to me..... :cry: Happens all the time, its OK, I'm well fimiliar the trend

So Mr. Philosophical major, please explain this phenom......... :lol:

No please dont. I actually have problems with the phycologically and philosophicly trained, especially with statements like "keeps my own ideals straight" and Im not flaming but it makes me a bit sick. I have recently been raked through the coals by bureaucratic types trainded to follow "guidelines" set forth by commitees of these types and frankly I just sat and watched and listened to them thinking "you've got to be fucking kidding me!" Seems they do everything but see the bottom line and avoid the root of whatever problem, or the real problem at hand, and the end results of their little games. But thats a whole nother book.
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moving along:
It brings me back to this topic. I have no idea what demographic this magazine subscribes too, I've gotten the impression "Death Metal". None the less, its important that other metal audiences are exposed to this band, and thats what the artical is about, so job well done, be it a bit restricted for lenght. Others just dont know what they are missing, this band can be enjoyed by a wide range of listeners, as long as they can deal with odd time signatures. Seems to me that would be the largest problem for most domestics. You get banging your head, next thing you know, you'll be out of time. Or you might get to liking the groove and next thing you know its gone and something new is being thrown at you. To me thats the radical stuff and what I like about prog. and bands that do it well, like SX. All of my friends that listen to metal are nearly 10 years younger than me and really like the old thrashy stuff. When I gave them my SX CD's to listen to, they really enjoyed it and were pretty much at a loss of words. Most comments were along the lines of "thats some really awsome stuff" spoken in a tone of astonishment with head bobbing up and down and of course getting out of time...... lol. Another band we're not allowed to talk about on this forum did the same thing to them 15 years ago when I turned them on to that nameless band. This is how its done, people say to others, "you've got to check this band out".... and so it goes.

Now thats how I keep my low ed. gramically impaired ideals straight. You throw it out there and let the chips fall where they may. Its far better than sitting in the corners thinking "no I shouldnt do this, it might get someone upset" or "lets put together a commitee and spend all our resources and a few years of precious time, deciding whether we can do this without stepping on someones toes" ----> now the moneys gone and nothing got done.
 
Er.... SHUT UP RAZOREDGE!!! :lol:

No, good points. Just one quick correction... speaking of Dream Theater is not forbidden, but it usually degenerates into comparison then versus and a lot of petty name calling because... as we all know, there's no POSSIBLE way for Dream Theater and Symphony X to co-exist. In all seriousness though, it does take the introduction from someone who's musical tastes they trust to listen to it with an open mind, yes? That's not to say that your friends who are into more primal music (stuff i personally enjoy the tits off of) wouldn't have liked SymX or Dream Theater on their own, but your endorsement couldn't have hurt things much.
 
Yea, they were young when metal hit and are big time Metallica, Testament, ect. freaks, stuff I cant digest that well so I couldnt give you their entire list. But they turned me on to Savatage, Fates Warning and Queensryche so alls well. Their biggest problem with prog was that it bounces around too much, gets fucked up timing, and is "too long". Their also into Maiden, Priest, Metal Church and the other mainstay heavy metal bands too, so their not all thrash. I knew they could not deny Dream Theater and Symphony X. Myself coming from old school hardrock and progressive hardrock, the progressive metal bands I always speak so highly of are the bands that finally connected us musically. But they still love their thrash and I stand there shaking my head and smile. None of them are into the new rabid dog vocals though, they like singers. I drew the line with the old thrash singers and thats as far as I can tolerate. Opeth so far is the only band I'll ignore the vocals because I really like the progressions and sound.

Like I said, this is how its done, you pass it around and say check it out and sooner or later connections are made and bands have new fans. As per Sunnydayzachs post................ :p
 
I was never angry at the fact that someone is introducing SyX to a different type of audience. I was angry at about the WAY they introduced SyX to a different audience. I did, however, state that from a communications (PR) point of view putting the SyX article in an extreme metal mag should probably not happen due to losing touch with their target audience. But even if I put "good PR" aside of it all and decided to put an article about SyX in an extreme metal mag, I would have done it differently. As a fan of all kinds of metal, includiing some extreme metal as well, I could tell them what makes SyX such a great and unique band. I just have this opinion that it is an insult to the prog/power metal community as a whole to go about this article by telling them that "opposed to popular belief, SyX isn't all about wizards and dragons" and that "you don't have to be a dice roller to like SyX". I guess it is just what I would call sterotyping, not only the music, but the people who listen to it as well.
 
But Symphony X is extreme and Im telling you they really should never be linked to power metal. I love SX and am having a hard time likeing any power metal band much, except I guess Kamelot is a power metal band but Id probably try to avoid throwing them into that pool too. And I listen to Helloween occasionally but like I said they were more or less origionals. A genre doesnt get really bad untill its beat to death.

I like Wizards and Dragons and Demons and mythology and old folklore and tales

He was the Wizard of a thousand Kings
and I chance to meet him one night wandering
he told me tales and he drank my wine
me and my majic man kinda feelin fine

first power metal song ? ........ lol
 
Wow, my thread actually sparked an intelligent conversation. :p For those curious about Decibel's readership, it's primarily male (as you'd expect) and the average reader is like 30-35. And to give you an idea of the bands we cover, here's a list of bands we've recently had on the cover:
Black Dahlia Murder
Down
Queens of the Stone Age
Behemoth
Pelican
Dimmu Borgir
Neurosis
Type O Negative
Jesu
Deftones
Iron Maiden

Also, FYI: The comment about the dice rollers was something I hadn't written but rather something the editors had added to throw in a little humor (Decibel writers tend to be smart asses). And the purpose for my comment about the wizards & dragons was to try to break the stereotype that some metalheads have of progressive/power metal, not perpetuate it, by proving that there *are* bands whose lyrics don't revolve solely around that, such as Symphony X.
 
I disagree with Doomsgaysack on every level, accept for the him being an asshole part.... haha im just kidding around man.

The article was very well written, and I can see how to some it doesn't make sense or sounds funky...But its really not, twas rather cleverly written IMO! Short...But I LOVED it!

Oh and for the record zach.... you do know that cunts are alot like waffles, since sticking together is what good waffles do.

Also, FYI: The comment about the dice rollers was something I hadn't written but rather something the editors had added to throw in a little humor (Decibel writers tend to be smart asses). And the purpose for my comment about the wizards & dragons was to try to break the stereotype that some metalheads have of progressive/power metal, not perpetuate it, by proving that there *are* bands whose lyrics don't revolve solely around that, such as Symphony X.
Click to expand...

Exactly, not all power metal is as cheezy as rhapsody (which don't get me wrong t'is a good band lol) Which goes perfectly with the fast, powerful and tight comment, just more melodic!
 
thats just wrong man! geeze you guys ! My first thought was waffle irons, ect. and I though "hey I might just like to be one of them" but never mind......... so much for intellegent exchange
 
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