Symphony X: Trouble in Paradise

dynamh

New Metal Member
Aug 18, 2007
11
0
1
Let me begin by expressing how much I enjoy the music of Symphony X and consider myself to be one of many loyal fans whose numbers continue to grow. It is from this position of profound respect for the band that I felt it imperative to raise this issue, and I do hope that the band itself reads and understands this so that they might avoid allowing the same mistake to happen in future recordings.

Paradise Lost, the long awaited full-length release from Symphony X is the answer to the prayers of many. The subject of this article is not the music of the album itself, though there is much to be discussed in that area, but rather in the way in which the album itself was produced.

My first Paradise Lost listening experiences were through my iPod. Having purchased the album the day it came out, I was eager to start enjoying and studying the new material. I would listen late at night sometimes, on my way back from some evening activity, one two, three in the morning, and was happy to have the energizing music keeping me awake when little else would. Most days I would hear several tracks at a time, reach my destination, and hours later, listen to the rest on the way back.

Then one evening, I had a long trip to take, and I listened to the entire album in one shot, and felt exhausted at the end. In fact, I started to notice that the fewer tracks I listened to at a time, the more I liked them. But if I heard four or five in a row, I would end up turning off my iPod before I reached my destination. Although I found the tunes themselves catchy (I'd even sing them to myself sometimes), for some reason I just didn’t feel like listening to them!

I started reaching out to other SyX fans, who mysteriously reported similar experiences--for some reason unbeknownst to themselves, the couldn't seem to digest that album in one sitting as they had with previous SyX releases. People were having negative reactions to the album even though they admitted to liking all or most of the songs on the album. This led me to investigate a theory I had learned about years ago in an audio engineering class.

The concept is called "Aural Fatigue", and this excellent article explains the concept much better than I can.

To test my theory that Paradise Lost was the latest casualty of misguided label reps, I extracted a heavy track from the album, and compared its waveform to an equally heavy track from one of their earlier albums and instantly found the proof that I needed. The waveform for "Domination" looked like a brick almost all the way through. It shows very little dynamic range. By contrast, the waveform of "Out of the Ashes" from the Divine Wings of Tragedy album showed a normal range of ups and downs, highs and lows. DWoT is an album I can listen to multiple times in a row.

The purpose of this article is to make the band and fans aware of what I feel to be a huge mistake in the production of the CD, one which the band may not even be aware of. After all, everything can sound great when listening to an album in a recording studio setting! Even listening to a track or two off of the finished album can be wonderful. But when you string all of the tracks together, it becomes unlistenable. The brain simply gets tired. What people must realize is that Symphony X's music is loud and powerful without the use of overcompression. It is not necessary to squash the waveforms to this extent to make Symphony X rock. They already DO.

The end result is a great CD that I have almost no desire to listen to. This is the real tragedy--The Paradise Lost, as it were. What I would love is for the band to make versions of the album’s songs that have not been overcompressed available to us. Perhaps they could be posted online for download for those of us with a valid UPC symbol from an album we purchased. As a listener base we have to send a message to labels that we are not foolish. You can't convince us that music is better simply because it's louder. Symphony X rocks and I’m simply asking for the ability to listen to their music! That’s a reasonable request, no?
 
interesting. I might not have gone that overboard (relatively speaking of course, I don't mean to take a jab at you) in looking into all that, but it's definitely an interesting take on it. However, I actually feel a bit differently, I think the production on this is, to my ears, the best thing they've put out. I have a hard time listening to it just because the songs themselves can be a bit much for a straight-through casual listen, but maybe there is something subliminal about the production that's doing it for me. Something to think about I suppose.

Anyhow, hopefully you wont take any heat for this because you're clearly not here to bash the band or ruffle anyone's feathers. Welcome to the forum!
 
Very nice and insightful post although I've to disagree. Nevertheless, welcome to the forum.
 
As a supplement to the above article, here are the waveforms that I compared.
l_e4bf1cf04ab59ce4110ac9774ebbbeff.gif

Out of the Ashes, from the Divine Wings of Tragedy album.

l_dd517a6699c57504ebd47f503c774c0b.gif

Domination, from Paradise Lost.

The difference is startling.
 
You make an extremely valid point, and in intelligently presented one as well (which is a breath of fresh air).

I completely agree that the current trend of simply raising the volume to make something heavier is absurd. Loudness does not equal heavy, it equals hearing loss. I could pull a song of an album from the 80's or 90's that would, in essence, be HEAVIER than anything on Paradise Lost.

I guess the argument from producers would be "turn it down", but that's the same as a tobacco company saying "don't inhale".

I find myself experiencing the same problem in listening to the CD the whole way through, but that's generally just because I start hitting the NEXT button as soon as the bridge in "Domination" begins. :)
 
yea it's called mastering.

And the best people usually can get it to look that way and still SOUND good. Personally of the things I've heard that Jens Bogren has mixed or engineered, he's done some better (With Oden On Our Side, Ghost Reveries) and some worse (Pain Of Salvation). There is somewhat of a film over the upper high end range of all these mixes, and no it's producers who need to be told to turn it down, it's labels and mastering engineers. And you make an excellent point on it sounding fatiguing, and in certain situations I kind of agree, but you also have to evaluate your listening environments as well. But I would caution you, never judge it based on what it LOOKS like, because there's things that may LOOK like square waves but sound ridiculous (like Ted Jensen's master of the new Chimaira record).

I will say though, sonically this is the most cohesive, well produced recording they've had, with V being the only thing close to that. Oh, and loudness equals hearing loss if you listen loud, if your listening environment sucks and you listen too loud, it won't mean shit how loud something's been mastered. But you have a valid point going about this, like take pretty much everything Beyond Twilight ever did, or even some of the Lande-Allen stuff (the over shelved those vocal eq's so hard), or anything Peter Tatgren's ever mixed.
 
Jeremy nailed it with, "It's called mastering." Welcome to how metal is mastered now - it's a compression/loudness contest.

that's really not true though, I mean yea it's definitely like that over all, especially in pop. But the best mastering engineers in the industry can get it loud without sacrificing the actual sonic qualities, like Bob Ludwig, Ted Jensen, or Doug Sax. The last two SYL albums, or as I said the latest Chimaira album, or the last two Cradle Of Filth albums, that's good mastering. Loud and overcompressed and distorted are two totally different things.
 
I agree with pretty much everything the threadstarter said : love the songs on their own, struggle to listen to the whole album through
 
Interesting topic...

I don't know why, but i somehow -in my initial experience- listened to the album beginning with the song "Divus Pennae ex Tragoedia", and finished by the same ending song. This was very enjoyable. And i still do the same when i feel like listening to the whole album, or when i have time to do so.

I advise you to give it a try. :)
 
What an amazing read! Thank you for sharing :)

I find that I have the same problem not only with PL, but with The Odyssey, too. What does the waveform of Inferno look like?
 
Jeremy says "it's called mastering", and this is true but a fact that must be understood is the nature of digital technology and the requirements for CD quality sound which must adhere to industry standards. Anyone who has not been exposed to the results of analog recording and older noise reduction processes would not understand how emotional frequencies have been sacrificed through modern recording, production, and mastering. People have been conditioned to expect certain standards. It is just the way it is. I have thousands of vinyl LPs and willingly tolerate some pops, scratches and variations to be able to appreciate the true quality of music as it was intended when composed.

Sure, there are engineers and producers who realize the sacrifices and some understand the means to compensate to a certain level to maintain honesty to the creative aspect of the music and true tonal quality. But most choose to proceed within the comfort zone of what is expected and required of them. It's really not a matter of "loudness". It is a matter of maintaining proper frequencies and tonal quality. That's what I have come to understand. Not that loudness is not an issue. I just believe that there is more to be considered.

The guys in this band compose and perform on a highly emotional level. I think Mike Romeo's input into recording and production has allowed this band to maintain as much of those qualities as possible. I give him a lot of credit. He must have software and digital technology to compose the music as he hears and feels it. It all follows through every phase thereafter, and intricate song structures could easily come through the phases as a final stripped down packaged sound as much music does. But he certainly is aware of the need to maintain as much as he can with what he has to work with. Nevertheless, there still are losses and sacrifices. It's a very fine line and a difficult task.


Technology has opened many doors, especially for musicians...but there have been sacrifices and many talented composers and recording artists have been short-changed. People who listen and buy and love music have also been short-changed. Go to concerts and experience the music coming to you straight from the hearts and soluls of the players. on a personal level, that's where it is most meaningful and rewarding, in my opinion.
 
*revels in the intelligent discussion*

Enjoy it while it's here! It's like an eclipse, it happens predictably, but there's long gaps inbetween instances :lol:

For the record, I have ZERO issues listening to the cd from beginning to end.
Good topic though. Worst mastering ever on a cd? Rush's Vapor Trails, hands down....
 
Very very interesting discussion. I find it very interesting. I know exactly what you are talking about, and the same thing used to happen to me with V. Actually it still does. Also the odyssey and paradise lost. But I have never really thought of this before. It's really weird actually because I find myself liking Paradise Lost and V, actually more than Twilight in Olympus and Divine Wings of Tragedy. However, I often find myself wanting to listen to Divine Wings and Twilight more than V or Paradise Lost. Weird, huh?
 
I've always thought that Divine Wings and Twilight in Olympus both have more pleasant sounds to the ear than the later albums. I think you may have something right there although I'm not sure how serious it is. The effect is greatest with headphones I think.
 
Not to shift the convo away from Symphony X at all but I get your point, loud and clear. Let's take Strapping Young Lad - City for example... Terrific songs, an all out metal assault, but I think Devin went a little overboard with all the ambience and the general 'busy' sound of the songs. It's like you said, it's hard to listen to all the way through (even though it clocks in at around 40 mins), with all the 'thickness' in the production.