Taliban Savages Must Die

[TyrantOfFlames]

Originally posted by Satori
Killing off the violent and fanatical idiots will also help the species evolve, something we very much need right now.

I don't think that will aid the genetics much, since all of us almost certainly have some ancestors, close or distant, who were very violent and moral-free. Also, it's more than the genes. These people were raised in a world packed with bias, ignorance, and very one-sides views. Killing them won't help, because more will always come. There will always be the ignorant ones, and if humanity decides to lose any sense of morals and literally root out all the people incapable of intelligent though, for a century or two, then we would have our evolution. I don't see that happening any time soon, though. Oh well.

 

[Satori]

Originally posted by TyrantOfFlames
I don't think that will aid the genetics much, since all of us almost certainly have some ancestors, close or distant, who were very violent and moral-free. Also, it's more than the genes. These people were raised in a world packed with bias, ignorance, and very one-sides views. Killing them won't help, because more will always come. There will always be the ignorant ones, and if humanity decides to lose any sense of morals and literally root out all the people incapable of intelligent though, for a century or two, then we would have our evolution. I don't see that happening any time soon, though. Oh well.

I agree. I guess what we need in the short term is social/intellectual evolution (which is how the vast majority of man's quick rise to the top of the food chain has taken place).

Satori

 

[Wolff]

Originally posted by metalmancpa



Throughout every "war" thread here, the finger pointing starts. I've asked this before : this war points out the enemies - western greed vs. eastern oppression. I'll take the greed, because even if I draw the short straw in this country, and get screwed by big business, lose my job, etc, I still have the CHANCE to make it again. The only reason I wouldn't make it is because of me. These terrorists we fight live in lands without chances or choices.

So you really believe that Sept 11 events were caused because (as Bush put it) the evil-doers hate freedom and democracy?

I think that's the a pile of shit, and the fact that that monkey has 90% approval ratings is disturbing. Most Americans are going through the first stage of media brainwashing.


The causes of the war are simple: US foreign policy in the Middle East... i.e.
1) the unabashed support for Israel, and
2) support for dictatorial/military regimes in the area like Egypt (fucking Mubarak has been a Prez for 25 yrs), Turkey (where women who wear a headscarf are not allowed in universities; imagine forbidding Jews from wearing their yamakas (sp?) at Yale or Princeton), Saudi Arabia etc (the most repressive regime in the area) etc.
3) The embargo on Iraq. When asked on CNN about the food and medical embargo that caused 500,000 Iraqi children to die becuase of famine and lack of basic health supplies, Madeleine Allbright then State Secretary, responded that "the price was worth paying"!!! I cringed when I heard that. Yet it's a bigger crime for 5,000 to perish at the WTC than 500,000 kids to die of famine. If this is not fucking racism and self-righteousness to the extreme, I don't know what is. Americans are very hypocritical.


Despite the obvious bullshit, part of bin Laden's message resonates well with the Arabs for the causes mentioned above.

I find that a lot of Arabs/Muslims (90% or more) are against bin Laden, but also against the military strikes which have killed at least 300 civilians. (There were at least 4 UN workers that died on the first 3 days, when a bomb went astray, so don't fucking tell me there are no casualties. Vietnam syndrome, i.e. denial, once again???)

Our monkey president when calling for a crusade (a word that pisses off all the Muslims wherever they are for obvious reasons) against the terrorists said you're either "with us or against us". I feel the more innocent people are killed/ more body bags come home, the more the neutrals would shift "against us" to quote Bush...

Anyway, both sides are extremly greedy and are using morality/religion to fuel the passions of the crowds. Morality and religion being highly subjective concepts, are going to be twisted to an extreme, and therefore the result is going to be an ugly ass war.

 

[FleischBrenner]

I find this entire thread pretty disturbing. The Taliban isn't the only regime with atrocities like that, we're just being shown theirs right now to work us into a blood rage, and from the look of this post, it's working. Funny how there aren't any pictures of Saudi Arabian stonings or amputations on TV, despite the fact that they happen weekly. We aren't in the country to rectify the humanitarian situation, we're there for revenge, the food dropping our government is doing is laughable, would you honestly eat food that was airdropped by the same people who'd destroyed your home the night before? I think this entire war will be nothing more than a waste of human life, I'd be surprised if we accomplished anything other than turning Afghanistan's piles of rubble into smaller piles of rubble.

 

[Wolff]

Originally posted by FleischBrenner
I find this entire thread pretty disturbing. The Taliban isn't the only regime with atrocities like that, we're just being shown theirs right now to work us into a blood rage, and from the look of this post, it's working. Funny how there aren't any pictures of Saudi Arabian stonings or amputations on TV, despite the fact that they happen weekly. We aren't in the country to rectify the humanitarian situation, we're there for revenge, the food dropping our government is doing is laughable, would you honestly eat food that was airdropped by the same people who'd destroyed your home the night before? I think this entire war will be nothing more than a waste of human life, I'd be surprised if we accomplished anything other than turning Afghanistan's piles of rubble into smaller piles of rubble.

I agree absolutely. I heard the US is dropping shitloads of peanut butter in Afghanistan. Adorable.

 

[MetalManCPA]

The last 2 posts make me think - is this quickly heading in the wrong direction? Are we heading for another Vietnam - only exponentially worse?

Too early to tell, but something seems to be happening.

 

[Lina]

Originally posted by FleischBrenner
We aren't in the country to rectify the humanitarian situation, we're there for revenge, the food dropping our government is doing is laughable, would you honestly eat food that was airdropped by the same people who'd destroyed your home the night before?

this is so ignorant. BEFORE this war, the US was the #1 provider of humanitarian aid to afghanistan. given that U.S. officials have said over and over again -- and i think you're smart enough to get -- that this war is not on afghanistan, but rather the terrorists who are hiding in that country, there's absolutely no reason to STOP the aid. in fact, doing so would only make the U.S. into the cruel entity the taliban wants afghanis to think it is. it is an admirable testament to bush (i'm surprised, honestly) that he has decided to continue this. the only shame here is that the afghan people, i'm assuming, don't have much access to western media and therefore don't know the truth.

and this is extremely un-PC, so forgive me. but i'm wondering why the hell people have stayed in their villages and not moved to the refugee camps that surround their country. do they honestly not know they're in danger of being bombed?

the truth is, MOST afghanis hate the taliban just as much as the U.S. does. many have gone to great lengths to sneak in western video cameras to expose the atrocities imposed on them. the taliban regularly murders afghanis, as they take over towns one by one. women and children starve because they aren't allowed to work.

the afghanis who resent the U.S. and who stayed put in their homes, i'm assuming are the ones who sympathize with the taliban. in that case, fuck them.

 

[Wolff]

Originally posted by Lina
this is so ignorant. BEFORE this war, the US was the #1 provider of humanitarian aid to afghanistan. given that U.S. officials have said over and over again -- and i think you're smart enough to get -- that this war is not on afghanistan, but rather the terrorists who are hiding in that country, there's absolutely no reason to STOP the aid. in fact, doing so would only make the U.S. into the cruel entity the taliban wants afghanis to think it is. it is an admirable testament to bush (i'm surprised, honestly) that he has decided to continue this. the only shame here is that the afghan people, i'm assuming, don't have much access to western media and therefore don't know the truth.

and this is extremely un-PC, so forgive me. but i'm wondering why the hell people have stayed in their villages and not moved to the refugee camps that surround their country. do they honestly not know they're in danger of being bombed?

the truth is, MOST afghanis hate the taliban just as much as the U.S. does. many have gone to great lengths to sneak in western video cameras to expose the atrocities imposed on them. the taliban regularly murders afghanis, as they take over towns one by one. women and children starve because they aren't allowed to work.

the afghanis who resent the U.S. and who stayed put in their homes, i'm assuming are the ones who sympathize with the taliban. in that case, fuck them.

Fucking hell Lina. Most Afghanis can't get out of the country because the neighbouring borders are closed. They can't go to Iran, Pakistan and on the North they have the Northern Alliance/United Front which is just as bad as the Taliban.

Secondly, there is very little infrastructure, which makes it extremly difficult to move. No roads, very little cars. Add here the mountaineous terrain and the civil war going between different tribes, the extreme poverty the people have to deal with, the mines planted by the Russians all over the place and you'd see why it is difficult to leave. Plus Taliban might have forced people not to leave their cities.

So the Afghan people have very limited options at this point. Nonetheless 2 million are in refugee camps, and 5 more milion are on the move.

I think most Afghanis hate Taliban as well as the bombing. However, as we witnessed in Yugoslavia, the attacked country tends to unite behid the leadership in times of war (just like us rallying around Bush). I think this polarization leaves little room for a middle ground which could lead to justice.

Finally, if the war was on the terrorist and not on the Afghan people (whatever the fuck that statement means), the US should send ground troops to annihilate the terrorists, because last time I checked bombs do not differentiate between "terrorists and Afghan people".

 

[Lina]

Originally posted by Wolff
Fucking hell Lina. Most Afghanis can't get out of the country because the borders are closed. They can't go to Iran, they can't go to Pakistan and on the North they have the Northern Alliance/United Front which is just as bad as the Taliban.
Secondly, there is very little infrastructure, which makes it extremly difficult to move in the first place. Add here the mountaineous terrain and the civil war going on and you'd see why it is difficult to do anything. Plus Taliban might have ordered people not to leave their cities; or might have forced them to stay put. I wouldn't put this past them.

well, millions of people have managed to flee to the refugee camps on the borders, so there must be a way. and why in the world do you say that northern alliance is just as bad as the taliban? not even close.

Originally posted by Wolff
I think most Afghanis hate Taliban and they hate the US Strikes. However, as we witnessed in Yugoslavia, the attacked country tends to unite behid the leadership in times of war (just like us rallying around Bush). I think this polarization will undoubtedly be messy.

bush isn't starving and killing us by the thousands (hundreds maybe but not thousands ). the taliban truly is not popular in afghanistan -- and if this does increase support for the taliban, it's only because they aren't being exposed to western media -- something i lamented in my previous post.

Originally posted by Wolff
Finally, if the war was on the terrorist and not on the Afghan people (whatever the fuck that statement means), the US should send ground troops to annihilate the terrorists, because last time I checked bombs do not differentiate between "terrorists and Afghan people".

i think it's pretty clear what that statement means. i don't know how else it could be interpreted. you do know that bin laden is a saudi, right? and that's why the bombs are targeting the training and military camps of the taliban and bin laden, rather than just nuking the whole goddamn country. the one town that accidentally got hit was a mere mile from the intended target. i don't think that's a sign of massive indiscriminate bombing. and they aren't sending ground troops yet because the terrain is extremely rough, as you said. it would be stupid for them to go in on foot until they absolutely have to. you may disagree with the objective of the war, but the tactics make perfect sense.

 

[Wolff]

Originally posted by Lina
You may disagree with the objective of the war, but the tactics make perfect sense. [/B]

Speaking of Tactics

The tactics should be to get rid of Taliban and Usama Bin Laden while minimizing the innocent death toll. I say this from a purely egoistical perspective: I don't want to deal with 1 billion pissed off Muslims who are more willing to die then Americans/Westerners.

 

[FleischBrenner]

Originally posted by Lina
this is so ignorant. BEFORE this war, the US was the #1 provider of humanitarian aid to afghanistan. given that U.S. officials have said over and over again -- and i think you're smart enough to get -- that this war is not on afghanistan, but rather the terrorists who are hiding in that country, there's absolutely no reason to STOP the aid. in fact, doing so would only make the U.S. into the cruel entity the taliban wants afghanis to think it is. it is an admirable testament to bush (i'm surprised, honestly) that he has decided to continue this. the only shame here is that the afghan people, i'm assuming, don't have much access to western media and therefore don't know the truth.

Uhhh, we're bombing the Taliban, not the Al-Qaeda, the Taliban never did anything terrorist related outside of their own country, all they did was demand proof before they handed over bin-laden (although I'm sure he's left the country by now). You said nothing to detract from or disprove my point (other than calling it ignorant), I'd NEVER eat anything dropped by a country who was bombing my country, no matter how long it'd been going on for. As for why the Afghanis aren't leaving their home, wouldn't you be a bit attached to your country after you (or your parents) fought against the soviets for over 10 years to defend it? If this war were indeed against terrorists exclusively, it would be done mostly through intelligence and such, as the Al-Qaeda is an international organization. I'll wager that the only thing they do in Afghanistan is recruit disgruntled muslims, the absolute bottom of the ladder.

 

[Satori]

In any case, I think we can all agree that killing off those idiot Taliban fucks can only have a positive impact on the state of affairs.

Satori