The death of MIDI

[moose209]

I've been hearing rumours that all the new DAW programs currently in development have no MIDI implimentation - at all. Even Logic. MIDI is finally being phased out apparently. But what is taking its place? Host based fader info like Logic - meaning apple have won the battle for our souls with Digidesign - who by the way as they have always done are working entirely independantly from the rest of the world and run the risk of creating interfaces that nobody uses. I'm guessing Firewire/USB2 will be the standard methods for data transfer but of what type of data?

Who knows, who cares, I am happy at the thought of the demise of MIDI as I personally hate the cunt. But will I enjoy or want to use its predecessor?

What say you in the know - anyone been involved in the beta testing of this - apparently Garageband hints at the future...oh dear.

 

[James Murphy]

i doubt seriously that midi is going away in any of the major DAWs. i think it's possible you misread or heard erroneous info.

 

[Torniojaws]

Why would MIDI even phase out? There is nothing that would replace it, not to mention all the thousands, ten thousands pieces of hardware that use MIDI extensively.

 

[James Murphy]

.. further to my post, many DAW's offer "audio only" versions with no midi functionality at all.. Such as DP's audio-only version, AudioDesk. they've always been around... just as the Midi only versions used to abound. Performer is midi only, Digital Performer is audio and midi, and AudioDesk is audio only. this is just MOTU's line.. most other companies have similar variations. i think it's possible you may have read or heard about one of these audio-only versions.

 

[moose209]

Quote "i doubt seriously that midi is going away in any of the major DAWs. i think it's possible you misread or heard erroneous info" - how polite for this board



I understand that I did not clarify that I did not mean the MIDI protocol but the 5 - pin interface on manufacturers equipment. I was wondering if this means that MIDI implimentation will not be apart of these DAW's, or will be phased out due to lack of interlectual property over the protocol. And the possibility of Digidesign shooting theselves in the foot by going out on their own and staying in isolation. Although it hasn't really harmed them in the past I feel the world is a much smaller place and what worked in the eighties and nineties will not work now. The information I recieved may be missunderstood and is by no means secret, it has come direct from developers mouths and studio owners doing beta testing for the platforms. Not erronious but none the less maybe missread by me?

 

[James Murphy]

well Midi could stand "modernization".. at the moment though what else is there? this quote may add perspetive:

"The death of MIDI is the same kind of misperception as "the death of analog" in the 80's when many sold their Minimoogs for $150 only to buy one back for $1500 later."

midi in an entrenched protocol, like it or not, and it will take something that can offer immediately obvious benefits and improvements and a backwards compatible upgrade path to kill it i think.

 

[moose209]

I understand that and I'm certainly not being a firebrand or heralder of doom. I think the whole thing rests on Apple/Logic as they have long wished to abbandon the MIDI protocol and interface due to its possible error rate and checksum issues. And ofcourse they have a wildly 'superior' control protocol of a 32 bit controller scheme, over the 128 value 14 bit MIDI that does not belong to them. But in digesting the conversation whilst having a cofee I distinctly remeber the phrase even virtual instrument will no utilise MIDI. It is a point to note that in all the 'big' studios I have been in recently I can't remeber seeing one MIDI cable. Plenty of gpo's and fag ends but not one MIDI tie. I dont think we have a choice in the matter, as I understand it in 18 months time these will be officially announced and we will have to comply...resistance is... jokes. I'm sure as with logic where the classic midi engine 1.0 and the revised 1.1 and the internal fader data is used there will be a translation, but MIDI will be surpassed by host specific data. Which I feel may cause consumers to have to choose one company and stick with them - like digidesign and some plug in manufacturers have until very recently have been doing.

Is this a move to make all things virtual and host based? If so will we see a return to an audio specific workstation as we did in the 80's. Might not actually be a bad thing, but will mean that you'll need to buy a system to run your 'chosen' DAW on. And you wont be able to have cracked software - as what would be the point - you would still have to own the system to run the shit on anyway. These are my thoughts on the matter. I can see the business sense and possibly the benifits - no more conflicts, and often a dedicated piece of equipment does a better job than a non specific system does it not? But maybe my understanding has been tainted by the corporate vision and conspiracy theories I adhere to.

We shall find out soon enough. Just because its available doesn't mean we have to subscribe to it. Although we often do. Bigger better faster harder now!uke:

 

[moose209]

Why would MIDI even phase out? There is nothing that would replace it, not to mention all the thousands, ten thousands pieces of hardware that use MIDI extensively.

How many of us utilise the full midi spectrum? I'm not suggesting you dont. I realise the potential and power that could have been realised by MID clock and Machine control, but how many us even need to understand it - let alone do understand it. There is a need for greater data depth when it comes to interfaces for virtual instruments and midi cannot handle this - have you ever tried using MIDI tracking on a guitar with a midi pickup - its like using a fat mans hand to play the top frets - kind of right, in the ball park.

 

[~BURNY~]

I haven't typed a sysex command in an event editor for ages. And I'm glad I didn't have to. In depth midi protocol is such a pain in the ass.

 

[Kazrog]

For years I've thought they should come out with a new standard, something backward compatible but call it MIDI 2, have it require only one cable between each device, etc. MIDI will never die for me though until everything it does can be replaced in some other way. I still have a ton of MIDI equipment and I use the full feature set of MIDI every day.

 

[moose209]

VIDI or vd for short! Virtual Instrument Digital Interface. It will be white and have no corners and no doubt have the prefix i before it. I love macs but hate the way they are slowly controlling everything I do.

 

[006]

Moose, I think I'll say it again - you're out of your mind dude.

I highly doubt MIDI will be gone anytime soon. It's got such a HUGE grasp in the industry it's not even funny. From feature film composers to big time metal producers....anybody who is anybody is using MIDI in some way, shape or form. For one man bands, it's a godsend with all of the available vitrual instruments these days including Drumkit From Hell Superior and HardCore Bass XP and extensive orchestra libraries like EWQL Orchestra and Sypmphonic which are used in the movie scoring world all the time. They all need MIDI to work. On the studio side of things you can use MIDI from a module hooked up to triggers to more efficiently trigger hits using Drumagog and the like rather than editing audio tracks so they aren't mistriggering. Also you can use the MIDI notes *to* edit the actual audio, instead of doing guesswork.

MIDI can be used for soooo many different things I find it nearly impossible to get rid of. I think Mr. Murphy said it best, there would have to be something immediately better than it before it would go away.

~e.a

 

[Radd]

I've only played with midi a fraction of a bit so I may not be one to talk here but my biggest gripe is latency. I've found that 0 latency doesn't necessarily mean 0 latency. I'd like to record my e-kit via midi but can't because of...you guessed it...latency!
Other than that it's confusing and a pain to learn but once you get the hang of it, it's not that big of a deal and is worth it.

Do you guys think that latency will be a thing of the past soon?

 

[Sweetnothing]

There was a time when some ppl encouraged you to drive drums on a separate midi output on your interface cause they said it was "tighter"...Heck, that was even applied to audio, with long cable runs and such.
Dunno what to think about that, I think it's beyond understanding.
As for midi dying...well I think it needs to be a little bit more user friendly, so making it better for all, but not erradicating it, after all, all automations and such are midi commands as far I know.

 

[egan.]

Do you guys think that latency will be a thing of the past soon?

No. Unfortuneately the latency is a intrinsic part of the way midi data is ordered and sent.

 

[Radd]

No. Unfortuneately the latency is a intrinsic part of the way midi data is ordered and sent.

F MIDI THEN!!!

 

[006]

Radd - use the module for monitoring and run the MIDI out to your DAW. There is no such thing as zero latency unless you run an all analog setup. The closest I think anything is to zero is 3ms, which is only 0.003 second.

~e.a

 

[Radd]

Radd - use the module for monitoring and run the MIDI out to your DAW. There is no such thing as zero latency unless you run an all analog setup. The closest I think anything is to zero is 3ms, which is only 0.003 second.

~e.a

Yeah, that works but only if I lay down the drum tracks first. I need & want to record the drums while hearing guitars to be able to do the best I can especialy with fills and time changes as I'm not a great drummer yet. Plus it's a hell of a lot more fun that way, otherwise I'll find it kinda boring which will discourage me from recording drums as often.

 

[Ben Johnson]

Radd - use the module for monitoring and run the MIDI out to your DAW. There is no such thing as zero latency unless you run an all analog setup. The closest I think anything is to zero is 3ms, which is only 0.003 second.

~e.a

I'd give 5 bucks to anyone who can perceive a 0.003 second delay over a zero. :Smug:

Audio recording as a technology is in a fairly advanced stage at the moment. I can't really think of a lot that can be improved upon, aside from faster computers / more user friendliness in certain situations. However, audio software is still in its relative infancy, and I think we'll see GIANT leaps in things like modeling and convolution in the next 5-10 years. But where can we go from there, once we can dial in a 100% authentic Mesa Mark IIc+ or a cranked Plexi on a single rack unit?

We all better start brushing up on our musical skills. Soon there'll be nothing to impede our creativity.

 

[gumplunger]

I haven't typed a sysex command in an event editor for ages. And I'm glad I didn't have to. In depth midi protocol is such a pain in the ass.

Tell me about it. I've written a couple programs that go through and interpret midi files byte by byte and it was a pain. Not a very difficult to understand format, just a big pain in the ass.