the decline

[|ngenius]

Let's face the brutal truth: Michael Jackson won't record Thriller II, as well as Dark Tranquillity won't come up with Projector II: The Revenge.

Just a question. If "creativity" means to break up with a symmetry in the composing lines... is Metallica a creative band?


|ngenius (Du... dubi... du)

 

[Ormir]

 

[Naku ist krig]

@Ormir: Horrible album... my mentally ill friend bought that..
He is also a happy owner of newest of Tyrävyö. And Apulanta.

NF: Sweet nausea.

 

[Miolo]

i fail to see what the matter really is.
if a musician, or a band, to be creative has to invent something new or to do something completely different from what he did before in every release, then you're right. but i'm glad there aren't so many creative bands out there and |ngenius got a point with the question about Metallica.

but judging a band from its creativity during the years sounds a bit stupid and pointless to me. the only thing you can use, imo, to judge music (or art, generally speaking) is your own taste.

Miolo

 

[|ngenius]

@Ormir: Yes, there are exceptions. Good cover, anyway.

@Miolo: To support my words always is the wise option.

@RealHazard: Get recovered of your sweet stomach instability. And salute your friend and his mental illness by my side.


|ng (Senseless)

 

[Naku ist krig]

@Ingentinortantuntematonirtokieli:
Seems that you don´t know Tyrävyö.

 

[opacity]

there are bands/artists who I find have gained creative quality from one album to the next. of course no-one can tell if they won't have a low with the next album...

 

[ShadowLioness]

Originally posted by rahvin
@shadowlioness: yes... and no. of course production or public pressure can do a lot to undermine somebody's spontaneous efforts... yet i see "the decline" as a built-in character of every artist. it's a bit like we started with a numbered quantity of new things to say, and when we've expressed them somehow there isn't much more to add except craftmanship, talent, good vibes and memories.
of course madonna likely didn't put out any real crap yet, and maybe she never will. still i feel it's safe to say that once "into the groove" and "true blue" were recorded, the rest is nothing more than the work of a scholar. the latter stuff is diverse, granted, but i can't help remembering the first time i've heard "frozen" noticing how the exact same synths appeared 6 months before on paradise lost's "one second"...

rahvin.

.

Glad to hear that you agree with me...somewhat ;-)
I have to go dig out my copy of "Frozen" and "One Second"....I must find this duplicated synth!!! I never knew that!

 

[BiatchGuy]

Interesting thread.

It's true of some bands (Megadeth comes to mind) but not true of some others (Faith No More and Amorphis come to mind)

I think Haven was a pretty creative album; not on the level of Projector, but they took some chances with it in how much they based the songs around the keyboards. Damage Done is solid but I can see how you might say it's lacking in creativity.

As for In Flames.. they were in a rut with Clayman but I think they've pulled themselves out of it with Reroute To Remain.

and as for Metallica, to me Load stands out as a very ballsy album, especially when contrasted with the vanilla Black Album. They could have continued in that vein but they made a very unpredictable statement which a lot of people call a "sellout." It was with ReLoad that they dropped the ball; it's not a good idea to make a whole album out of the previous album's rejects!


and:
would you say this is something that happens more often in metal or punk, which are much more young and angry styles of music?

 

[Naku ist krig]

OK.. We shall burn the earth..

 

[Erik]

Originally posted by opacity
there are bands/artists who I find have gained creative quality from one album to the next. of course no-one can tell if they won't have a low with the next album...

Well, they do usually gain quality with each until they hit the infamous "creative peak", which can come sooner or later. Any way, from there, it's downhill.

 

[HarmonyDies....]

agreed, i mean just look at King's X.

 

[Naku ist krig]

For the Blakmetal mafia of Poland.

 

[Dmanx Pit]

This topic's a tough one for me because I'm pretty biased in favor of all of Dark Tranquillity's works since they're probably in the top 5 of my favorite bands, but my favorite stuff was right at the beginning of the band. Although Damage Done was #2 album of 2002 in my top 20 (shameless plug: http://www.uraniummusic.com), I get the most emotional response out of efforts like Skydancer and the demo material. Staane's a way better vocalist then Friedan ever was in DT (Of course, he's evolved as well to become something great), but the material written around the Skydancer era was amazingly put. The lyrics shone through much better then later day releases, the rifts were emotional and impressive at the same time, and the band shined.

But the thing with most bands is there are some that are completely content with writing the same album over and over again, and it's usually those bands that run out of ideas the fastest. After "Seasons in the Abyss", Slayer just ran out of ideas and decided to let their music evolve, for better or worse. Anthrax were becoming stale until Sound of White Noise rejuvinated them. And In Flames decided not to release Colony part 3 and decided to tinker with their sound.

Dark Tranquillity, being one of those bands I hold in high regarde in the metal world, also felt the same way. My favorite album besides Skydancer was "The Mind's I", but even that was getting a little tried and true. Let's face it, if you own The Gallery, then you knew what to expect on The Mind's I, although DT are the type of band that can keep it fresh. However, if Projector were "Minds I Part 2", it probably wouldn't have gone anywhere. The band, before releasing rehash, decided to experiment, change it's elements. And in the opinion of the band, the clean vocals failed (which I disagree with, if used sparingly they added so much to the song, case in point Freecard), which is why we got Haven (for some reason, my least favorite). Damage Done was the closest thing to a safe album we got this year as the band decided to take some of the newer elements and try to write a hybrid between Projector and The Mind's I.

Overall, though, I think DT merely adapted to change rather then become one of those rehash bands, which is fine. Damage Done was definately one of my favorites, but DT have molded themselves to a point where I have no idea what the next album will sound like, whereas the new Soilwork I already know I'll probably get into and I haven't even heard a song yet. However, I'll REALLY get into the new Dark Tranquillity if it's good, and given the track record, I seriously don't think I'll be disappointed.

So to answer the question, no I don't think they've declined over the years, but tried their hand at different elements in order to keep the band fresh and to thus prevent the band from running the idea mill dry.