The Hidden Hand!!!!

[speed]

Oxford England- the university?

 

[Black Winter Day]

Yeah.

 

[NAD]

Shit dude, so how long will you be there? What are you going to be studying?

 

[Black Winter Day]

6 weeks (3 at London, 3 at Oxford). Studying literature.

 

[speed]

sweet. Is that like a special program, or do you have to pay extra? I am very very jealous.

I remember having some pleasing literature conversations with you. What are you reading now?

 

[Black Winter Day]

Yeah, it's a special program. It was originally supposed to be exclusively on Shakespeare, but it's been altered. The professor in charge is a bit of a spaz and I'm not even sure at this point if they're gonna fuck me on it or not. Will find out from him tomorrow. I've already put down my initial payment, but... Eh, hopefully it will work out.

I haven't had much time to do any reading on my own. Hopefully I'll have some time this Thanksgiving for Ken Wilber's "No Boundary." Wilber rules and everyone should read his philosophy.

This what I've read in the past month or so for class...

Nietzsche - most, incl. "Thus Spake Zarathustra"
Freud - most
a book about women in the USSR under Stalin
George Bernard Shaw - "Pygmalion", "Major Barbara"
George Eliot - "Middlemarch" (sucked)
bunch of Yeats, Whitman, Browning


Hmmm... that's about it! Between all that and drinkin' you can see why I'm so damn busy.

Of all that, I'd say Freud, Nietzsche and "Major Barbara" were the most interesting. And the poets, obviously.

 

[NAD]

Freud and Nietzsche liked to buttfuck each other.

True story.

 

[Black Winter Day]

I used to think both were half-stupid, half-brilliant...

But after actually READING all their material, neither is quite the idiot I had ignorantly presumed. Especially with Freud. Some of Nietzsche's stuff came as quite a shock because a lot of it ended up being quite contradictory to what I (and most of 'intelligent society' who hasn't bothered to read all his stuff) had thought.

 

[Krilons Resa]

Some of Nietzsche's stuff came as quite a shock because a lot of it ended up being quite contradictory to what I (and most of 'intelligent society' who hasn't bothered to read all his stuff) had thought.

Exactly.

 

[speed]

Nice list. I have never been a big fan of English authors honestly. I enjoy Graham Greene, Conrad, and Joyce, but few others. QUite stuffy, too class conscious, etc. Just personal taste.

SO this is a class through your university?

Recently in the last two weeks I finished:

Aristoltles the Politics
Classical Cynicism- an academic philosophical review
Hesses Demian
Camus play The possessed

I was about to pick up Lucians Dialogues with the Dead and Gods. I am a very very fast reader, but I have had a lot of work lately, and this is all i could get through.

 

[NAD]

Believe it or not, I have a lot of respect for Nietzsche. The man was pretty brilliant, whether or not I agreed with what he said. I don't disagree with everything, nihilism is just something I find foolish because it isn't possible. Then again I guess Nietzsche might have said the same thing. His conclusions seemed to be drawn out of thin air, that was the main thing that bugged me about him. He would lay out assumptions as opposed to premises, sort of like how Stalin worked. Nietzsche might have been "ironic," but what he created was not.

Freud on the other hand, blah. Jung made sense, Freud is just weird. I'm not an expert on either though.

 

[Black Winter Day]

Yeah, I'm not a fan of most Victorian authors either (however, the poetry is insurpassable... Keats, Shelley, Tennyson, Yeats, etc.).

The class is indeed a university program.

How did you like "Demian"? It affected me profoundly the first time I read it (my AIM sn is DEMIANxABRAXAS, if that gives you any indication...), but not so much the second time. However, it is an excellent portrayal of youth searching for philosophical answers, even if the main character is a bit of a nutcase. "Steppenwolf" is definitely Hesse's masterpiece.

I need to read more Camus. "The Stranger" was definitely a kick in the balls.

 

[Black Winter Day]

Believe it or not, I have a lot of respect for Nietzsche. The man was pretty brilliant, whether or not I agreed with what he said. I don't disagree with everything, nihilism is just something I find foolish because it isn't possible. Then again I guess Nietzsche might have said the same thing. His conclusions seemed to be drawn out of thin air, that was the main thing that bugged me about him. He would lay out assumptions as opposed to premises, sort of like how Stalin worked. Nietzsche might have been "ironic," but what he created was not.

Freud on the other hand, blah. Jung made sense, Freud is just weird. I'm not an expert on either though.

*Hint-Hint* Nietzsche was NOT a nihilist. In fact, there is a specific part in "The Geneology of Morals" that does nothing but trash nihilism and ascetism. Nietzsche, as an extension of Kant, wonders why we even need truth at all. What does it matter? Many of his assumptions were based on this (see many of his Aphorisms). However, this doesn't mean that Nietzsche never sets up excellent arguments, see "The Birth of Tragedy" and "The Antichrist" in particular.

If you have doubts concerning the brilliance of Freud, just read "Rat Man." His theories that seemed so far-fetched in the beginning actually end up hitting the nail on the head and actually "curing" a man with EXTREME neurosis.

 

[NAD]

I plan on reading more Nietzsche later in life, but don't hold your breath on Freud.

 

[Black Winter Day]

Blah blah HE SADI WE ALL WANTED TO DO OUR MOMS how stupid is that? lol

 

[NAD]

 

[Krilons Resa]

BWD beat me to it again.

 

[speed]

Since you enjoy philosophy, try The Rebel and the Myth of Sisyphus by Camus. The two non classical philosophical texts I enjoy the most, and find most relevant to actual thought and life. The first two chapters of The rebel examine in detail nihilsim and Nietzche, and Dostoevski ( who was saying essentially the same thing through some of his characters earlier than Friedrich). I have read a biography og freud, but never any of his works. What would you recommend?

I loved Demian, but not nearly as much as Steppenwolf, Narcissus and Goldmund, nor The Glass Bead Game( which is both brilliant and awful). I think Mann said it best, when he called Demian the european version of Catcher in the Rye ( of course it was written 30 years before Salinger), with Jungian symbolism. Personally I enjoy Narcissus and Goldmund the best, it is so well written, his prose is so fluid, the idea and central characters are timeless.

 

[Black Winter Day]

Since you enjoy philosophy, try The Rebel and the Myth of Sisyphus by Camus. The two non classical philosophical texts I enjoy the most, and find most relevant to actual thought and life. The first two chapters of The rebel examine in detail nihilsim and Nietzche, and Dostoevski ( who was saying essentially the same thing through some of his characters earlier than Friedrich).

Cool. I've read excerpts from Camus' "Myth of Sisyphus" and it was sensational (it's actually what inspired me to read "The Stranger" several years ago). I guess it's time to read the whole thing.

I have read a biography og freud, but never any of his works. What would you recommend?

I personally think that his case studies are far more interesting than his actual essays. Try "Wolf Man", "Rat Man" or "Dora."

I loved Demian, but not nearly as much as Steppenwolf, Narcissus and Goldmund, nor The Glass Bead Game( which is both brilliant and awful). I think Mann said it best, when he called Demian the european version of Catcher in the Rye ( of course it was written 30 years before Salinger), with Jungian symbolism. Personally I enjoy Narcissus and Goldmund the best, it is so well written, his prose is so fluid, the idea and central characters are timeless.

"Demian" as the European "Catcher in the Rye" is a great, fitting description. I'd also say the same about Maughm's "Of Human Bondage" (but of course, you know... longer). I haven't read "The Glass Bead Game" but I do own a copy of "Narcissus and Goldmund." It will be next on my Hesse to-read list.

It's funny that neither of us mentioned "Siddhartha". Do you think it's a bit simple compared to his less-famous works?

 

[JayKeeley]

What on earth have you bastards done to my beautiful hidden hand thread?