The last ever Therion US tour

[tenebre]

Wow, thats kind of shitty of Therion. The vibe I get from that is "meh, this sucks, we hate it here. later!" ... Maybe if their more professional booking agent had booked more shows they'd do better, but, thats OK, because the crowds and venues here aren't big enough anyway, and they ARE a show band.

I hate to say it, but they sound like whiny little diva's here. I understand the point of a tour isn't to lose money, and I also understand that a poorly managed tour can be a giant bitch, but you know, have a little professionalism.

They obviously don't like it here. I say good riddance.

Thats really not true. Having worked with booking agents and promoters on various project through the years i understand what he is saying.

If they came with basic band, only 1 singer and 1 sound engineer. It woudl still cost a fortune plus then peopel woudl complain about the quality of the USA shows.
Chris is trying to give a comparable show in the states compaed to his shows abroad, but he cant afford to work for a 4-6 weeks AND lose money.

i mean if you had to go to work for a month AND pay to work that month, what would you do?
He could strip down even more and put on what some woudl consider a subpar performance and possibly break even, but then the reputation of his band would be at stake.

You have to understand there is ALOT of cost in gettgin a show aside from just plane tickets and visas. The insruance, travel needs, etc add up for thousands upon thousands of dollars.

i appreciate Him even giving a second go at the tour, let alone providing an explanation about not wanting to do it again. He could have just said nothing and never come back. (i.e. helloween 88-97)

 

[eaeolian]

maybe the fact that they arent willing to 'strip down anymore' is the reason for people not knowing them

If they suck live because they strip it down too much, how does the tour help, exactly?

There's always a balance point.

 

[Photino Decay]

It's one of the main reasons Epica bugs me. They have so much tracked and I don't want Therion to resort to anymore than they already do.

Yeah

 

[Photino Decay]

I don't get all this crap about them being divas because they don't like to lose money on tours. If you deride them for doing that, you don't deserve to see any of the acts with more musicians. I hope you're happy only ever seeing 3-5-piece bands, and making it so that the rest of us are stuck in the same boat.

Edit: and if you read what they said, they didn't start the tour with the intention of it being the last. They realized the US doesn't give a flying fuck about their music (at least, not enough people that it makes sense to come here in person).

Even After Forever is considering never coming back to the US again. Hopefully, they can find a big enough name who will take them on tour and get their music out to people who will appreciate it, instead of boo at them.

 

[Braxil]

I can't really fault Therion for this. They tried their best twice, and it just didn't work out. When they played at the Key Club here there was barely enough room for the eight musicians on stage to stand, and they were unable to use their backdrop or anything due to the size of the stage. Their show is made for bigger venues, and they've been through hell *twice* only to lose money here both times.

 

[mloanna]

I am glad I saw them last week in Ca. 911 and all the strict rules with passports and visas are creating a big problem in the music world.

 

[nailz]

If they came with basic band, only 1 singer and 1 sound engineer. It woudl still cost a fortune plus then peopel woudl complain about the quality of the USA shows.

Then how do bands like Finntroll pull off headlining shows in the US without bickering that they're going broke? isn't part of being in a band sacrificing for success?

Chris is trying to give a comparable show in the states compaed to his shows abroad, but he cant afford to work for a 4-6 weeks AND lose money.

This is resepctable. I understand this. however, instead of completely depriving and siphoning off Therion's US fanbase with a promise of no more shows, especially this late in the tour is horseshit. They can be show quality nazi's all they want, thats cool, but to just say "Well, we can't do it the way we want, so we're not going to bother at all" ... I find that very premadonna like. They should find a way to make it work.

i mean if you had to go to work for a month AND pay to work that month, what would you do?

Again, being a musician = sacrifice. You don't become a success by not putting your product out there to be consumed. It sucks that they're losing money on this tour, it really does, and I'm glad they're finishing instead of just cutting their losses and running. Good for them, but for christ sake, no band worth anything had success handed to them. If Therion wants to stay comftorably confined to Europe, who needs them. If we're not worth the effort, then neither is their band to me.

You have to understand there is ALOT of cost in gettgin a show aside from just plane tickets and visas. The insruance, travel needs, etc add up for thousands upon thousands of dollars.

I know. I've heard it from a number of bands, and throw in a lot of shitty promoters which this country seems to suffer from, so I've heard from countless bands, it makes it even tougher.

i appreciate Him even giving a second go at the tour, let alone providing an explanation about not wanting to do it again. He could have just said nothing and never come back. (i.e. helloween 88-97)

Me to. Don't get me wrong, but I think it should've been more professionally worded. A tough life, it would seem, to travel the world to play music to your fans.

 

[Magius]

That musician - sacrifice theory is just bullshit. Where is it written that artists sould suffer for the pleasure of fans? They're telling it as it is, and being straight up about it. They're losing money, and can't afford to. There are still has families to feed, homes to pay for, and bills to pay. Yet you think they should "sacrifice" so you can have an opportunity to see them live? No.
How about you give up your house so you can fly over and see them. Fans should sacrifice for bands too, right?

As I've said- Starving for artists or anyone else is highly overrated.

 

[eaeolian]

This is resepctable. I understand this. however, instead of completely depriving and siphoning off Therion's US fanbase with a promise of no more shows, especially this late in the tour is horseshit. They can be show quality nazi's all they want, thats cool, but to just say "Well, we can't do it the way we want, so we're not going to bother at all" ... I find that very premadonna like. They should find a way to make it work.

Perhaps this decision was made during the course of the tour? That would be my guess.

I'll just skip your "starving artist" BS quote. It's easy to say when you don't have to do it. Musicians owe a lot to their fans, but it's difficult to continually be stupid with your finances and maintain a career, unless you're ridiculously lucky...

 

[nailz]

I don't get all this crap about them being divas because they don't like to lose money on tours. If you deride them for doing that, you don't deserve to see any of the acts with more musicians. I hope you're happy only ever seeing 3-5-piece bands, and making it so that the rest of us are stuck in the same boat.

how does it make it my fault that he's losing money on the tour, and thus making you not being able to see more than 3-5 piece bands??

If anything, its YOUR fault for not promoting and touting them enough to make the tour a success. This logic is just as rediculious as yours.

Please don't forget that I have been abhorrently and shamelessly plugging Elvenking for years because they're a band I believe in strongly, and want to be able to share them with the rest of the Progpower community. I feel that through me, they've gained in popularity and recognition in the states through my doing so. It's not like I'm not trying to do my part.

 

[nailz]

Perhaps this decision was made during the course of the tour? That would be my guess.

I'll just skip your "starving artist" BS quote. It's easy to say when you don't have to do it. Musicians owe a lot to their fans, but it's difficult to continually be stupid with your finances and maintain a career, unless you're ridiculously lucky...

Yet you think they should "sacrifice" so you can have an opportunity to see them live? No.
How about you give up your house so you can fly over and see them. Fans should sacrifice for bands too, right?

You're right. I agree. If it's not financially sound, then it shouldn't be done. It's something I've said to a lot of people who want to see bands who don't necessarily have the drawing power here, and maybe I lost sight of that. I retract my band suffering comments in light of that, it was a stupid thing to say that I certianly don't believe. I don't hold it against a band to not want to tour in a market that doesn't at least allow them to break even.

But my statement on the Diva-esque tone of the statement still stands, it sounds like "We're too big and badass to play for you."

 

[eaeolian]

But my statement on the Diva-esque tone of the statement still stands, it sounds like "We're too big and badass to play for you."

That's your interpretation of it. However, if that were the case, would they even be in the U.S. now? I find that unlikely, since they've already tried to slim the shows down...

 

[Diabolik]

first off Nailz.....I have been pushing Elvenking a lot longer.

I am bummed that this is going to be Therion's last US tour. I think another issue is the very weak tour package. They need a stronger support act. Some band that would definetly draw some extra people. I think that is a weakness.

I think it is easy for us to point fingers and try and figure things out but in reality...no one wants to lose money. I think the killer part is that bands come over with horrible tour line ups. I know it isnt them creating them but this past year has had some great bands come over with the worst packages.

 

[nailz]

That's your interpretation of it. However, if that were the case, would they even be in the U.S. now? I find that unlikely, since they've already tried to slim the shows down...

Admittedly, I don't follow Drama De' Jour of Therion's US happenings. Perhaps, then, you're right. Maybe I'm misreading it, or looking too much into it. I guess to their credit they did try to make things go much better this time around, and were willing to shell out the money to do so. Thats pretty cool of them.

So, I'm willing to change my stance on the tone. It was nice of them to at least let the fans know what was going on.

 

[nailz]

first off Nailz.....I have been pushing Elvenking a lot longer.

Heheh.. Only if you've known them since their To Oakwoods Bestowed time. I've had enough with the self-created pissing matches for today though

 

[metropolisimages]

I am sure they have their reasons. I think it just was not doable. At least they tried...

 

[Diabolik]

Heheh.. Only if you've known them since their To Oakwoods Bestowed time. I've had enough with the self-created pissing matches for today though

I've been there before the first disc was out. Enough battles between fans. Now with both of us behind them....we need to push for a US tour.

 

[BABS]

I feel this is a case where economics has dictated this decision. I mean, who the hell wants to embezzle themselves?

 

[Photino Decay]

I blame Nuclear Blast, actually. If Within Temptation can almost fill Irving Plaza, why can't After Forever at least headline and fill BB King's? Why didn't After Forever open for Nightwish, for example? How many fans did they gain by opening for Overkill? Sure, maybe 5 Overkill fans liked it and a dozen didn't mind listening to it, but they would have gained over a thousand fans if they opened for Nightwish. Then again, Nightwish is on Roadrunner, as well, in the US. See a pattern?

 

[Perditions Ghost]

That sucks. I really would have loved to see Therion. It seems in the future I will be travelling to Europe.

I would make last-minute plans to go to NYC to see them, however, the show is 16+. I won't be 16 until March. I hate being young.