The Metal Vocals primer and Q&A

AHJTeam-
1. I don’t see a direct question here

ah sorry, the question for #1 was in the first line of the post, I accidentally moved it there:

tl;dr: I want to take some singing lessons, any suggestions where to start?

PS: I haven't used the AHJTeam captioning on screen names for like... almost 10 years. But really cool that you are like one of the first ones to use it without it being on my username :) Your rates listed on the website are a bit pricey at the moment for me, but when I have the spare cash, I promise to drop you a line.

edit: You might want to use a signature and/or update the profile info, you can do it from here:

Profile info: http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/profile.php?do=editprofile
Signature: http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/profile.php?do=editsignature
 
Sorry about that, didn't see that question. Glad I could adress you correctly! I'm sure i'll get a few names right.........and fumble the majority. It's a newb curse! No worries on training, you don't owe me a promise or anything, your training is all about you. If you decide to do some sessions in the future your always welcome.
I actually did add a bit into my profile, but probably forgot to hit save or something. Hopefully that's been fixed. That's what I get for doing 1250988 things at the same time.
 
Mago-
Thanks for the welcome. I didn’t miss breathing. I will cover it some in the later volumes. Remember though, I’m not trying to train people in technique in the thread, just offering insight and combating misconception. The idea is to answer the most often asked questions. I rarely get asked about breathing. You and I both know they should be asking though!

As far as the women screaming thing, my answer can come in the form of a single word- BULLSHIT! And to prove my point, if you have ever been the sorry bastard who was caught in between two approaching teenage girls at a mall who hadn’t seen each other in longer than week, you know the two girl banshee shriek that immediately ensues. If you can manage to keep your hearing and manhood intact after that and still argue that girls can’t scream, you’re lost.
Anyone with a female child who has had a toy taken away knows that girls are natural screamers. Not necessarily a good thing for our sanity, but proof none the less.

ah well of course...didn't think about the other parts to come about the breathing parts, sry ;)
Thanks for clearing that up for me!
haha yeah...grew up with 2 younger sitsters so....:loco:
 
Hey guys, figured I'd pop in to this thread.

I've known Rodney for nearly a year now, and we've shared nearly a lifetime of conversations. His knowledge when it comes to the human voice is quite incredible and while many people are great vocalists, very few of those people know how to aid others when it comes to teaching them how to sing. I've sent a few people I've worked with to Rodney who had been seeing local popular vocal coaches who were steering them the wrong way, and reinforcing terrible habits that could ultimately cause damage to one's larynx including vocal polyps and paresis. I have also been taking lessons from him, so you just wait 'till I start work on my solo project to hear what comes from that :)
 
Lots of REALLY great info here. Glad to have someone around with so much knowledge on the subject. One thing that I've noticed that hasn't really been mentioned yet is volume. I'm a baritone that can do a Matt Barlow impersonation in my sleep, but for the life of me, I can't get screaming down. I can get a pretty decent fry type sound, but at ridiculously low volumes that would probably work in a recording, but just don't seem to be practical for live use. Now I remember seeing MC mention that volume is not something to worry about, but I can't help but either call BS or wonder if I'm doing something wrong. Is there something I'm missing when it comes to getting a good growl sound at a higher volume? Thanks again for all the input here.
 
@Lolzgreg

I forgot to thank you for Rodney's contact.
I have to say Rod is one of the few people teaching modern singing. There are few excellent teachers or coaches, nowadays, able to do that job, I mean, teaching how to produce sounds more than teaching some mystic method made of "chest voice", "head voice" and all that misunderstandable vocabulary.
I have read tons of books about classical singing technique, and I came to the conclusion the words that are used in them are misleading ones.

Meeting Rod helped me a lot to clarify my thoughts about the "producing sounds" process.

@Rodney : you should get in touch with an english/french vocal teacher, who's awesome and incredibly smart and educated concerning voice physiology. His methods remind me a lot of yours. If you are interested in exchanging opinions and thoughts about those precious matters, you can PM me, and I'll give you his contact.
 
Excellent!
Thank you for the information, Extreme Vocals.

I myself study psychology for fun, but even I didn't think how I thought about vocals had much of an effect on how they actually sound.
And that was stupid of me, since, you know, beauty is in the eyes of the beholder, etc.

I've always had the mindset that my voice was the worst and I needed to do a ton of work to get it anywhere near decent.
I've gathered hope yet, however. I'll try to look at my sound in a different light from here on!
 
First:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jtcp6yBb-nk

You really don't increase your chestrange, sure you can force it by pulling it up but that will sound terrible and damage your voice.
What you do instead is to gradually blend in your headvoice as you go higher, this range where this transition occurs is called mixed voice. Blending is easier said than done of course. But that's how the great singers do it.

Singing Success has worked great for me and my singing. I like how easy and effective it is. Just pop in a cd, listen, browse Sneapforum, mimic the exercises, done.

What's your maximum octave dude?
 
What's your maximum octave dude?

I am very new to singing as well. Been only at it for a year and a half.
Here's a little review I did earlier this year: http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/off-topic-tavern/656043-what-do-you-think-singing-program.html

I did a G above high C (15th fret on the e-string) just now. I can probably get a semi- or a whole tone higher on my better days, and a few notes below the low E-string.
But those notes are not what has developed the most, it's rather the notes around E,F,F# below high C (open e-string). These are the notes where I start to transition to headvoice. I used to break to head- or chestvoice all the time around there before when I just sang to my favourite songs. Started doing the exercises and I noticed so much more results in 2 months than a year of daily karaoke ever did.

The point is: A practice regime made by someone experienced yields much greater results than just singing to your favourite songs.
Quite obvious maybe but yet so easily forgotten.
A example outside of a musicians life: People in the gym who want to get big and strong doing only isolation exercises or the women who want to tone up but only does cardio...
 
Greg-
Thanks for dropping in on the thread. I appreciate the good word. So are you getting any closer in your quest to be the new James LaBrie? :D

Mortal desire-
I actually did talk about volume a bit in part two where I talked about just yelling or pushing too hard.
As far as your specifics, I would hesitate to call BS as it won’t help you find the info you need.

Concerning volume, focusing on it is a problem for two major reasons. The first is, as soon as you start trying to get more volume before you have your scream really developed, you send a message to your body that instantly creates tension. Tension creates tightened muscles; this ruins the ability to stay open and relaxed enough to let the proper mechanisms do their job.

Is there such a thing as a scream that’s too quiet? Yes. Will a fully developed fry scream be lower in volume or level of physical force than you probably think? Yes. I can’t judge your situation as I can’t hear it or see you perform it. However, it’s pretty common for people to think it should take more pressure or have more sheer volume than it does. It’s perfectly useable, and I can assure, hand to a bible, that it is being done by the majority of people you hear doing that type of scream. This is why I also advise using a mic when practicing. Your head dampens your internal hearing of high frequency. Hearing it through a mic creates a much better picture of what is really coming out of you.

On the subject of the live situation, there is no level of volume you will ever put out that will compete with the massive volume of guitar and bass amps. You shouldn’t be pursuing a method of vocal production that relies on sheer volume from you to compete. For rehearsal, invest in decent PA practice gear and TURN THE VOLUME UP!! These vocals are almost always done through a mic. Use it just like a guitar player practices with his amp most of the time. It is an integral part of your performance and will change how you perceive your voice.

Most vocalists have to come to terms with the fact that you’re not going to hear yourself well most of the time until you get to a certain status when you perform live. Most monitor guys couldn’t give a shit, and if you want to sing correctly you have to resist the temptation to scream over it. You have to go at it knowing that the audience can hear you, and trust that if you’re doing your job it’s all good.

To wrap it up in a short piece. Will correct fry screaming increase in volume as you get better? Yes. Will it be at the same level of volume or pressure you use like when you yell at someone in traffic or really belt a clean note. No. Will practicing with mic privately and with a band help and should you involve good mic technique and a PA with enough power? Yes. Is there a difference in the level of growls vs. fry screams? To a certain degree, yes.

Hope that helps you man. I know it can be frustrating looking for answers.

Arnaud-

Thanks once again for the kind words. I’m going to get into some of the issues about traditional vocal methodology based in the long history of classical and theater work, and modern techniques and that yes, some of the traditional school of thought does not have application in several aspects of modern voice. Following some older methodology and trying to apply it to more modern sounds can result in some real problems.

And thank you for the referral. I would definitely like to speak with him. I’ll send you a PM.

Ahjteam (Annsi) ;)-
I’m going to cover a good bit about getting started in training in part three. If you still have some questions after, feel free to ask.

MaellalJohn-
The right frame of mind is crucial. More than most people think. Your mouth is just the speaker box for the brain. If you are nervous, angry, overjoyed, annoyed, the sound of your voice is a dead giveaway. You do it automatically. That’s why it’s hard for nervous people to lie effectively, happy people to conceal joy, etc. It really is a huge component of voice. Scales and routines are good practice for the actual mechanism, but if your mind is giving conflicting signals, you can practice all you want and not progress.

I’m glad to hear your going to take a new approach. Sometimes even just setting a task, and not being attached to it, can get you by for a bit. If you looked at it for a while like going to the gym (yes I know I use the analogy a lot!) It might be an approach that works. You just do the work each day, don’t expect miracles and don’t be attached to results. Just try and enjoy the time in an almost scientific way, and don’t get emotional or frustrated.

Just like with lifting weights, you can’t help but see the results after a while. Don’t record yourself, etc, don’t concern yourself with the sound and if it is like what you expect to hear. Just give it a good while of work, or go through a course of study, then do a song or project. Your new level of ability and sound will probably surprise you and then encourage you to really dive in and get hardcore on being a real vocal badass. Good luck!

Abberation-
More to come on the musical vocabulary, methodology thing in part three. It’s shaping up to be a big one!



On a final note, I wanted to relate a story from last night that couldn’t be timelier, and explains exactly why I decided to do this thread. It illustrates the level not only of misinformation, but bullshit attitudes about this type of singing. It not only made me really angry, but disappointed me. It seems like a real uphill battle to fight against this type of ignorance sometimes.

Prepare for Rant.

I won’t mention any names as I’m not out to start a pissing match with someone, and it’s not the point I’m out to make either. It’s about attitudes. Not my new opinion of this musician.

I was on twitter catching up with a few students and happened to see a tweet in my timeline from a fan to the vocalist of a pretty well known metal band. The fan said “any advice for an up and coming screamer?” The guy’s reply was “I never know how to answer this. I just kind of do it”

Why is this outrageous? This guy is shown in one I’m sure, and possibly both dvds of the Zen of Screaming.

He then claimed that “screaming came naturally to him” This is a guy I’ve seen footage of doing really disturbing things to himself to try and get a raspier sound that were definitely not natural. Not only that, but YOU WERE IN THE FUCKING ZEN OF SCREAMING!!!!! I didn’t want to start a huge episode, but felt the need to interject. I asked him “didn’t you learn some things from Melissa Cross?” He replied, “Yea, just tips though. For melodic stuff” I find it interesting that he went to the most famous scream coach in the world and didn’t get any help with the style of vocals he uses 99.99% of the time, but worked on something he could get help from a much wider range of coaches. I could be wrong however.

Even if that was the case, you have worked with, know, and were willing to participate in two videos for a vocal coach that offers help on exactly the topic this kid who looks up to you is asking for help on. So you’re going to act like you don’t know how to help him? Why? I can only assume it’s yet another case of someone who wants people to see them as some god gifted vocalist who was born to do it, and not someone who actually had to put in work. This “too cool for school” bullshit has got to go. I don’t know where this thing came from or why people get so invested in denying their training, but it’s seriously messed up.

Not to mention that this kid who looks up to him and wants to follow in his heroes footsteps could now be on his way to serious vocal damage, a long time finding the right help, or just never going anywhere because he feels like he just wasn’t born with it like his hero and gives up. From someone who says he loves his fans so much, that’s a seriously shitty thing to do. It’s also pretty lame to leave your coach who helped you hanging and not send students their way, all in the name of your vanity. I guess it was ok to promote yourself in her videos though.

He replied at the end saying “Melissa is awesome. I recommend her” Really? Because you had the opportunity when the kid asked 10 seconds ago and didn’t. Had I not jumped in, she would never have been brought up or recommended. Pathetic. I don’t know what it will take to change this type of thing. Probably a serious alteration of the human condition, but hopefully some decent info will push back a bit.

Sorry to end this one on a negative, but that’s how it goes some days! Best of luck to you guys reading, and don’t believe the bullshit!
 
One day one of the bands i recorded atm brought that Zen of screaming to the studio, and i sat and watch for a half our or so. I could tell right away that some of the techniques she used can hurt your chords really bad if you're not doing it with someone who knows what they are doing. And especially if people watch it at home, try out some of the exercises without having any knowledge of how the voice works. Of couse you should always listen you your voice and how it feels, and to develope your voice you need to push it, but never to much. And that is quite hard to find that middle ground. Especially if you are a noob.

Don't know what i wanted to say here hehe, but you guys who are trying to learn screaming listen to your voice and don't wear it out, you could do seroius damage to your chords
 
The most funny thing in the Rodney's anecdot is that "sreaming" singers sometimes consider themselves with such vanity and pride ! Hey guys ! We're just try to imitate monsters and demons ! :Smokedev:
It's a fuckin' kid play, not a hero action !
 
hey thanks a lot for this post mate this is really useful.
any tips to warm up?i'm currently rehearsing in order to sing for the album of my black metal band.i sing really loud basically and not so high pitched like gorgoroth or something,more heavier style basically like marduk etc.
cheers
 
Part 3


For people getting into scream training or considering becoming a vocalist using screaming, etc.

Your first questions should be “why do I want to sing this style of vocal?” Is it because it’s what you think people expect to hear when they listen to your type of metal? Because you think it’s the easy way out of getting a good vocalist? You think it’s cool? You don’t really care about vocals and think it’s the easy way to throw a voice into your tunes? You think it’s easy and you can learn it quick?

If any of the above applies, I seriously suggest you rethink your vocal choice. If you’re going to get into extreme vocal styles, it should be because it’s what you hear in your head, and that you want to take it seriously as an instrument, and use it as a way to make yourself distinct.

If you’re thinking of it as a cop out, or bandwagon option in anyway, your setting yourself up for damage, a miserable time, or just being one of the thousands of sound the same screamers that seem to be around every corner today.

You should go into training ready to dedicate time, energy and money, just like guitar or any other instrument.
You should go into it with the idea that you’ll be learning techniques that take time, patience and dedication and will enable you do shape your style using them as a tool, not a means to an end.

There’s a lot more than just making gritty sounds to being a good vocalist in this style. Learning composition, having varying tones, the ability to pitch your aggressive vocals accurately, and decide when NOT doing them would better serve that part of the song. That being said, here are some thoughts on getting started.

1. Of course I recommend getting a good teacher. Books, videos, and stabbing at it yourself are only going to get you so far. Having a person who can see your performance and show you the crucial pieces will not only make you a far better vocalist, but cut untold amounts of time from your progress. Check out the later section on finding the right coach and vocal teachers.

2. Additional things that can help a lot outside of formal lessons. Get some guides on proper breathing, and do some things to become more athletic if at all possible. Breath is the most overlooked, and ironically the most important part of a good voice technique.
Ronnie Dio swore that his advantage to having such a huge voice was the years of breath training he had while playing trumpet. Also, start a course in ear training. Being able to accurately hear pitch and harmony will go a long way in helping you hear good vocal lines and be able to know exactly where the next note is going to sit.

3. Start listening to other vocalists. I know this sounds obvious but I mean REALLY listen. I find so many musicians of all sorts do way too little listening before trying to do something. They don’t have a firm grasp of what they are trying to imitate or be influenced by. Vocalists tend to be a pretty repetitive bunch. They tend to use the same notes in their melodies, same rhythmic signatures, tonal choices, etc.

If you go to cover a song you should know it so well you’re almost sick of it. I see so many guys that can’t hear the pitches in a song they want me to help them with, but ask them to sing a song they grew up on and they can nail it lyrics and all with no difficulty and no rehearsal. It’s because they grew up listening to it for the enjoyment of it and it’s gotten into them at an almost subconscious level.
This is how you learn composition and style. I do allot of work helping vocalists get their style together by teaching them how to understand why they like the singers they do, and then how to dissect the singer’s voice to take the pieces they like and leave the others. It’s how you use an influence instead of becoming a mimic and a rip off.

When I taught at Musicians Institute, I had another coach that would play a game called “name it in three” You would hear one verse and one chorus from a vocalist. Based on that you would have to find what notes they tended to for melodies, their rhythmic tendencies and tonality. Then do an improv that sounded like the singer, without copying something they had already done.

This way we learned that some vocalist’s notes may be why you like them; some of them it’s their cadence, and others, you just like the tones they use. These things are almost completely overlooked, not only by students, but other coaches as well.

How to find the right coach, and my thoughts on Metal voice training / methodologies.

First, to save me some typing and cut down on the size of the post, read this from my site. It’s a reprint of an article I did for Music Connection magazine on vocal coaches.

http://extremevocals.com/Home.Articles.aspx

Some new things I’ve noticed since that was written.

Now there seems to be a deluge of vocal coaches, many well known, and many who up until very recently said they taught metal and “screaming”, but by screaming they meant high range, Halford style vocals. Nothing wrong with that, I do that as well. However, they would often tell students they could teach them really aggressive vocals, only to take lesson money from them for quite a while, and then give a few tips on grit etc; finally admitting it really wasn’t their area of expertise.
This seems to have gone a step further now, with many of them suddenly being experts in this field, and claiming to know the bands, style and techniques. I’ve heard and seen some of the products put out by these so called experts and they are dubious to say the least. Some I would even consider dangerous.

Before going to a coach for some of the really aggressive vocal training research them and see if you can find out their history. Internet forums, etc. Make sure their claims of being experts at the style aren’t sudden and recent. Asking them directly probably isn’t going to get you very far. Many are unfortunately flat out dishonest. When I see people advertising products with quotes lifted directly out of my website and videos, and having Melissa Cross’s name and the Zen of Screaming imbedded in their web pages code, I wouldn’t trust much of what they would tell you.

This isn’t to say I don’t hope to see more coaches doing this legit. I have zero desire to corner a market or any such nonsense, and there is room for anyone with a good approach. No coach on earth can handle all the people in need of lessons. Unfortunately it seems as with any trend, people are always ready to cash in, even at someone else’s expense.

Methodology

Something to consider as well is does the method this person uses apply to your chosen style? Contrary to what many will tell you, there is no be all, end all, technique that applies to everything. This is usually the point of view of traditionalists that think that there is only one school of thought, and it is their way or you’re just wrong.

Traditional western vocals are based on Classical and theatrical singing. For modern music, and more recent thing like extreme singing, quite allot of it, contrary to what many may tell you, does not apply. Many of the sounds made in modern popular music have been considered unpleasant for a long time. The methods in traditional teaching are meant to prevent you from making these sounds. Using these techniques to achieve the opposite of what they were designed for is not only counterproductive, but the cause of a lot of damage and frustration. The coach will then tell you “see, I told you it would hurt you” after teaching you the very thing that made it so.

There are also tons of books, methodologies, etc that have become institutionalized in that the process has become academic. This can be good from the point of having people document and look into the methodology deeply. Many times though, over intellectualizing something is just a waste of time and only serves the vanity of the one repeating it. Many scholars love to talk and sound knowledgeable.
Voice is a very intuitive instrument and many people have a tough time getting out of their own head long enough to do it well. Filling them full of over complicated terminology and thought processes to do simple things doesn’t serve any purpose but to pump up the ego of the speaker, and confuse or frustrate the student.

There are also modern vocal methods that may not be right for you either. See what kind of vocalists seem to gravitate toward what styles of training. It’s usually a pretty good indicator. Of course coaches in that field may claim that their method works for everything, but it’s rarely the case. Some popular schools of training right now are geared towards pop, R&B, and studio / voiceover work, and are not exactly suited for aggressive styles.



My thoughts on the current state of metal and modern vocal training

Teachers and coaches can usually see trends ahead of time because they are working with the next generation of musicians yet to make their mark. Here’s what I’m seeing and my thoughts on where it’s headed.

I see a huge turn over in metal coming, especially vocally. I think the constant and pure distortion with no note or tone variance has reached a saturation point. It’s becoming what hair metal was to thrash and speed metal in the 80’s.
You can usually tell when a trend is bottoming out when the people doing it seem to be getting younger and younger. In the 80’s you wound up with teen hair metal bands like trickster. Now you’re getting the design the skyline ilk. Screaming isn’t regarded as scary or dangerous anymore. It’s become a mainstream and inappropriately used sound.

I can’t the count number of sessions I get requests for that want the “magic bean” lesson. The single hour that will turn them into a celebrity with the hot topic staff and they have little patience for more than a day’s worth of work to achieve their new vocal chops.
I have stopped being willing to deal with this type of student and they always seem so amazed that I would turn anyone down. I’m only interested in working with someone who is serious about what they do and isn’t going to just contribute to the generic noise that’s out there these days.

This stuff is completely oversaturated and it’s going to give way to new ideas or the rediscovery of older ones very soon. This is why I suggest that if it’s not 110% what you do, you consider a different approach, and try asking for help in other vocal areas (I’m talking about heavy use of screaming here, not metal vocals as a whole). Only the people who are into it for the right reasons are going to be taken seriously in the near future and take the style any further.

There’s space for screaming and growling to grow and evolve. As it is right now though, the overwhelming majority is using the same sound, same delivery and even though I do it myself and teach it for a living, I can barely tell allot of it apart.

If you get into it and are serious about making a statement, it can be fun, rewarding, and nothing beats attacking an audience like a berserker and watching them freak out at the sounds you’re capable of!

As a last note of encouragement- if this is what you want to do and you wonder if you are capable of it, remember this. At one point in our life you were about 12 inches long and when you were hungry, unhappy, needed attention, whatever, you would let out a scream that would peel paint for a mile. You have 10 times that body mass now. Still think you can’t do it?

Remember your mom telling you to stop yelling or screaming when you were out with your friends? Did you ever blow your voice on the swing set or playing soldier? Of course not. You have all the equipment you need. Sharpen your tools and have at it!

I hope this helped any of you reading with your interest in metal vocals, and particularly screaming.

Best of luck at it. Now go do something that intimidates the hell out of me!:headbang:
 
Great info here; thanks for giving us your time! It's refreshing to know that there are still knowledgeable teachers out there who encourage creativity and are in it for more than an easy paycheck.
 
Could someone explain to me what Phil Anselmo was doing wrong that destroyed his voice? I'm assuming it was all the yelling he did but I imagine it goes a bit deeper than that...
 
Could someone explain to me what Phil Anselmo was doing wrong that destroyed his voice? I'm assuming it was all the yelling he did but I imagine it goes a bit deeper than that...

Actually Phil had pretty good chops if you go back to the early work. I can even hear some good mic work and control on 101 proof even though it is a mixed bag with rougher moments. I think we can thank severe alcohol and drug abuse for his vocal issues.