The Mix Amelioration

i have to agree 100% it's much easier and yields better results when you thoroughly enjoy what you are working on. a good song mixes itself.

to a certain point i wouldn't even call it mixing when its a great song, it's more like just putting on the finishing touches.

when you have to work to make a song interesting with all types of effects and reverse reverbs leading into a chorus to make it "explode" etc. etc. you know you are just picking up the slack for inferior songwriting as opposed to just going with the flow and momentum of the music and balancing things and mixing musically as opposed to technically.
 
Well, I wasn't really a fan of modern pop or "folky" acoustic rock until the past year. After working with a couple groups like this, it made me appreciate how much fun working on comparatively "simple" projects can be. There's something to be said about simple, good songwriting without an overabundance of instrumentation.
 
I think we should probably define what we mean when were talking about "technicality".
Because there are extremely simple songs written according to musical theories and rules.
And very challenging songs written based entirely on intuition/what sounds cool, because the people writing them have no technical knowledge to draw upon.
 
I think technicality is defined by difficult or rapidly changing arrangements, challenging instrumental passages, or quirky time/key changes.
 
I can disagree with many things said here even though I do see the point. I think it all depends on the genre and aim of the music, I love Dream Theater, I absolutely love listening to Dance of Eternity and no I am not a 13 yeard old prog nerd. The whole songwriting process is completely different as is the aim the music takes. I can find many things I love about long prog songs and I feel that Dream Theater's songwriting in most songs is brilliant. This is of course my opinion, and I might not be doing this for a living yet, but I have been listening to all kinds of rock/metal/alternative/pop etc. for many many years, and learning songs from such genres and paying attention to every detail.

I definitely can appreciate good songwriting, be it a pop song with three chords but that with the proper arrangements/vocals/other elements becomes a perfect song, be it a blasting gore/grind song with extreme speed and well structured to make you feel the rush from beginning to end without getting bored, or a long 15 minute progmetal masterpiece with intertwined arrangements and unexpected but really cool changes.

I think my appreciation for fast, shreddy, blasty and/or not-too-melodic music comes from my physical uneasiness, I've always been very electric, as in I can't sit still no matter what I'm doing, and when I feel the need to move around, well, you can see me air-drumming, air-shredding, singing guitar soloes with my mouth, blasting the fuck out of my imaginary snare, etc. and I appreciate songs that get me going in that aspect, in a totally different but codependant way that I appreciate well written poppy songs that keep me singing like a faggot when people can see me through the windows of my car.

Honestly, I find it silly when people simply dismiss a song they don't like by calling it a "pointless wankery", some people do not find taste in it, but some people genuinely like it. It's not about looking cool cause you're a prognerd, some people ACTUALLY FEEL MOVED by this music, so it's a little disrecpectful to claim that it has "zero song writing focus and direction, horrible transitions from section to section and at least several guitar and keyboard solos that add nothing musically to the song" when many people really do feel that it does have good songwriting, that the solos do add to the song and that the transitions add excitement to the music.

I think it's important to understand the actual aim of every genre/song and to respect the fact that songwriting approach is very different in many cases and that what might not appeal to you, really does appeal to other people. Again, people who enjoy Dream Theater (just an example of course) actually do like them, and no they're not all 13 year old prognerds, in fact I don't think teenagers are even a significant percentage of their audience but even if it is, it's not the point. Point is, many people like it, and taste is subjective so you should respect that.
 
I think technicality is defined by difficult or rapidly changing arrangements, challenging instrumental passages, or quirky time/key changes.

challenging instrumental passages -> dying fetus

difficult or rapidly changing arrangements, challenging instrumental passages, or quirky time/key changes -> cryptopsy

difficult or rapidly changing arrangements, challenging instrumental passages, or quirky time/key changes -> dream theater
 
I think my appreciation for fast, shreddy, blasty and/or not-too-melodic music comes from my physical uneasiness, I've always been very electric, as in I can't sit still no matter what I'm doing, and when I feel the need to move around, well, you can see me air-drumming, air-shredding, singing guitar soloes with my mouth, blasting the fuck out of my imaginary snare, etc. and I appreciate songs that get me going in that aspect, in a totally different but codependant way that I appreciate well written poppy songs that keep me singing like a faggot when people can see me through the windows of my car.

Sounds like you described me haha

LMAO

I'm the guy who's semi-headbanging and tapping his feet on the floor listening to Hatesphere with my headphones at work while my other colleagues remain silent in the office :)
And i'm also the guy who happen to sing gay high-pitch Incubus/Keren Ann/New Found Glory stuff in his room, and next thing you know my roommates come up to me and tell me : "soooo you also listen to non-brutal stuff ???"
 
Sounds like you described me haha

LMAO

I'm the guy who's semi-headbanging and tapping his feet on the floor listening to Hatesphere with my headphones at work while my other colleagues remain silent in the office :)
And i'm also the guy who happen to sing gay high-pitch Incubus/Keren Ann/New Found Glory stuff in his room, and next thing you know my roommates come up to me and tell me : "soooo you also listen to non-brutal stuff ???"

Hahaha I'm always humming some sort of blastbeat riff whenever I'm not listening to music, and last night my wife came out of the bathroom calling me a faggot for listening to gay shit that sounds like Selena Gomez (I was listening to and gayly singing VersaEmmerge) :lol:
 
haha you two should meet my drummer! together youd trigger an earthquake. and then youd sample it. ok that wasnt funny.

Anyway personally i am looking at complexity as just a detail. Personally i think that music should aim to make you FEEL something. Wether it is complex or simple. That ffeling could be just some energy from listening to a riff or it could even be an ugly part that still makes you feel something because it relates to the lyrics or what the artist is trying to communicate. But if you dont feel anything then maybe someone else will in that case that's ok. But if nobody does then i think it is a moment of being uninspired from the artist or the challenge to connect the dots of a song or the artist trying to satisfy his/her ego. Things like that are bound to happen from time to time and that's ok but i tend to drift away from that music if it does too often.

Ultimatelly i start to visualize things in my head when i feel something and that's a good sign for me but if the music is "plasticy" or void then no amount of musicianship can fix that (or lack of). Then in that case as a musician i MIGHT still listen to that part to learn from it but if i do then i move on. That's why i have a lot cds of different genres taht i dont enjoy much but thought i could learn from to take that to another direction that might fit my taste.

Unfortunatelly i dont even do that much anymore. in fact i havent really figured what to listen to latelly and its been a while i havent been listening much. Yet im still a music addict but i just need to find something new i guess..

Sorry i realise that strayed a bit from the original post about songwriting AND mixing..
 
Well almost the opposite of some of you.
Over the years I can definitely say that now I'm more into metal than I was before.
Before I forced myself to listen to all stuff because I was getting bored by some metal easily.
But I'm agree that the more I mix the more I like simple stuff, there's this guy I'm recording vocals for, he's forcing himself to layer a shitload of tracks even on verses.
I hate this, a verse should be straight in your face, well some doubling here and there is not bad. Layering like that, basically destroys the feel of a song.
And for the record I hate some rock music that is a straight formula copied over and over again, like those bands like Nickelback (not that I hate them that much, but seems they deliver the same stuff always)
You can be a genius even with simple riffs, but they have to show to the audiance something new, something unique.
Oh btw I'm getting more into straight forward death metal, I just have to buy some good stuff now!!!!!