The News Thread

lolwut?

But sure. Donald Trump has simply buffooned his way into being The Trump. Maybe intelligence is overrated.

The point isn't that she doesn't lie, it's that she gets absolutely taken to task every time there is even a suggestion that she does. There is nowhere near the same level of scrutiny of Trump's speeches, mainly because it would actually be quicker to pick out the things he's saying that aren't bullshit.

And yeah, I guess dumbness does kind of help to get you elected. My worry is what happens after the election.
 
You keep mentioning how he isn't giving enough information for voters to choose with, well his supporters exist and are many, they don't seem to have a problem.

Anyway this has gone on forever.

It's because people can cherry pick the things he says that they agree with and pretend to themselves that that's what he stands for. He's like a make your own political candidate.

Also people are dumb.

And it has.
 
Donald Trump's lack of political experience, incendiary and inconsistent behavior and general dishonesty kind of even them out for me.
 
A quote from Trump's campaign announcement speech:

"Last quarter, it was just announced our gross domestic product — a sign of strength, right? But not for us. It was below zero. Whoever heard of this? It’s never below zero."

So we're talking a billionare presidential candidate who doesn't actually understand what GDP is. And the worst thing is that's not even the stupidest thing he said in that speech, let alone across the entire campaign.

Even if Hilary is the devil incarnate, she's still preferable to someone that incredibly stupid.
 
I don't understand this line of thinking.

I suppose it's because it seems intuitive to me that someone with questionable motivations is a preferable candidate for a difficult job than someone with questionable competency and questionable motivations. IMO ignorance tops extremism or greed as the single most dangerous force in the world right now.
 
I guess some people are conversely thinking that what Trump would do will out just like any other sort of information, so they aren't worried about that.

Oh, absolutely. I'm not voting for Hillary because of her integrity or authenticity. Those are nearly worthless values in an office of the utmost national security (i.e. national security and international/geopolitical affairs are not necessarily concomitant with individualist interests).

I'm voting for her because I know she represents social interests that I happen to agree with on an ethical level. But ethics is a groundless system - there is no "meta-ethics" or ground from within any ethical system by which to substantiate it. Seeing as individualistic rhetoric and ideological positions are not attractive to me, I tend to gravitate toward more systematic and potentially alienating political programs/platforms.

Part of this undoubtedly stems from an ethical imperative to privilege the estranging at the expense of the familiar. I'm absolutely aware that this could spell disaster, and that this does nothing to bridge the gulf between the academically enfranchised and disenfranchised. But given the present political choice, I'm going with what I think complement my ethical tendencies.

I think it's more because he wants to have as many stances available for his game as possible. As I said, he's an opportunist.

You see a dumb person. I see a calculating game player. In my view you're underestimating him.

Personally, I won't be surprised if he backpedals or even does a full 180 on certain issues once he's in office. To this extent, I don't see him as even much of a person at all. He's a calculation machine, and in this regard does whatever to achieve the programmed goal (i.e. win the presidency).

Unfortunately, if this is the case, there's no way for us to know what he'll do once he's in office. If his primary directive is to win the election, then he ostensibly has no goals beyond winning. Obviously, if he does win, he'll pursue certain goals; but these are not available to us as a voting populace. Given that he could exponentially intensify some of his positions, and who the fuck knows which ones, I'm voting for Hillary.

The scale is tipped by the evidence of Hillary's horrible political career.

And not by Donald's horrible financial career? This is what confounds me. People say how even though Donald has no political experience, it's better than Hillary's because hers is horrible. But if his business experience tells us anything (and who's to say it even should), it's that he's only made it this far because he's cheated other people out of money and declared bankruptcy - what - four times?

Okay, so let's reframe: he has no reputable experience at anything other than getting a hell of a lot of people to flock to him; and those people aren't stupid or ignorant, and it's unfair to call them that (a position which, while not directly attributable to this discussion, has surfaced before). I'll agree with that much for argument's sake. But then it's okay to call the people who flock to Hillary stupid and ignorant? What is going on here...
 
Anybody that flocks in general is probably stupid. Poor use of words? Besides, I didn't say anything about calling his supporters stupid. Go ahead, all I said in that regard was that it's questionable to accuse him of depriving the people of facts via vague meaningless statements and positions with which they may make informed choices when it's quite evident that he is doing quite well and so therefore he must be coming across quite clear to someone.

Trump's supporters probably are idiots, we get the politicians we deserve, but lets also not forget that a decent chunk of the Hillary crowd is muh genitals and another decent chunk is simply #NeverTrump.

Like I would vote Trump because I dislike Hillary so much, many others are doing the same with the opposite candidate, regardless of how terrible her track record is.

He's a calculation machine, and in this regard does whatever to achieve the programmed goal (i.e. win the presidency).

It's almost as if he's the only politician with this course of action in mind, surely you're not this naive?

I suppose it's because it seems intuitive to me that someone with questionable motivations is a preferable candidate for a difficult job than someone with questionable competency and questionable motivations.

Once again you advertise the lack of depth in your critique. Hillary is so incompetent she was investigated by the FBI and they claimed it wouldn't be worth pursuing her case because it was innocent incompetence and gross negligence rather than intent. They even said had she been an average civilian she would basically be fucked.

She has defined incompetence recently.
 
Okay, so let's reframe: he has no reputable experience at anything other than getting a hell of a lot of people to flock to him; and those people aren't stupid or ignorant, and it's unfair to call them that (a position which, while not directly attributable to this discussion, has surfaced before). I'll agree with that much for argument's sake. But then it's okay to call the people who flock to Hillary stupid and ignorant? What is going on here...

Would you agree that Trump himself is ignorant? Choosing to elect somebody ignorant is in itself a qualification for ignorance in my opinion.

I agree that simply insulting Trump's fan base probably doesn't get one anywhere though. It's more likely to just piss them off and entrench them in their opinions, as is testified to by this thread.
 
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Here are reasons why Trump is better than Hillary:

Border
- Trump may not be able to build the wall, but even if he builds part of it, strengthens the border in some way, or gives more authority to border patrol, that would be great.
- Hillary will not build a wall or strengthen the border at all. She will actively welcome illegals in. She will tell border patrol to stand down and let them in like Obama did.

Deportation
- Trump may not be able to deport 11 million illegals, but even if he deports SOME or A LOT, that would be great.
- Hillary will not deport anybody. She will actively grant them citizenship!

Muslims
- Trump may not be able to ban all Muslims, but he will push for extreme vetting.
- Hillary is bought off by Muslims, Soros, and leftist globalist organizations that love them and want to see them destabilize the world

Refugees
- Trump will not bring in refugees
- Hillary will bring in tens of thousands of refugees, force them into American towns that don't want them, and force taxpayers to pay for them

Taxes and regulations
- Trump will lower taxes for all citizens and corporations which will be good for the economy. He will make regulations easier for businesses to comply
- Hillary will raise taxes on everyone to fund her big government social programs which will be failures. She will create more stifling regulations and shut down entire industries

Trade
- Trump is against NAFTA and TPP which kill American jobs
- Hillary helped write that shit

War
- Trump will scale back our global military presence and only jump in when it benefits us
- Hillary is a warmongering lunatic

Healthcare
- Trump will abolish Obamacare, an expensive, ineffective disaster and replace it with a free market system
- Hillary will expand upon that monstrosity
I'd like to see the pro-Hillarys pick apart my post issue by issue
 
It's almost as if he's the only politician with this course of action in mind, surely you're not this naive?

Right. But no one else willing to throw all pretense of a rational debate out the window and wreck their own party in the process to achieve their goal.

Once again you advertise the lack of depth in your critique. Hillary is so incompetent she was investigated by the FBI and they claimed it wouldn't be worth pursuing her case because it was innocent incompetence and gross negligence rather than intent. They even said had she been an average civilian she would basically be fucked.

She has defined incompetence recently.

What you don't seem to get is that there are degrees of incompetence. For instance, a teacher whose classes achieve unusually low grades is an incompetent teacher. This doesn't make her a less preferable pedagogue to a baboon.
 
It's more likely to just piss them off and entrench them in their opinions, as is testified to by this thread.

No it's not. If there is entrenchment happening in this thread, I'd say it's quite equal among participants.

Right. But no one else willing to throw all pretense of a rational debate out the window and wreck their own party in the process to achieve their goal.

What debate? American presidential debates are a joke and actually Trump is great at milking the "debates" for all they're worth. He's great at the American debate format.

What you don't seem to get is that there are degrees of incompetence.

Actually I do get that, hence why I dislike her so much, because her degree of incompetence is quite repulsive.
 
No it's not. If there is entrenchment happening in this thread, I'd say it's quite equal among participants.

What I said was a general objection to the tactic of criticising a person for their beliefs, rather than criticising the beliefs themselves. As to who is more responsible for unprovoked ad hominem attacks in this discussion, I'll leave you to be the judge.

What debate? American presidential debates are a joke and actually Trump is great at milking the "debates" for all they're worth. He's great at the American debate format.

He's entertaining, but not enlightening. It's a sad fact that not actually debating an issue is in itself a winning debate strategy.

Actually I do get that, hence why I dislike her so much, because her degree of incompetence is quite repulsive.

But nevertheless, not even comparable to the level of incompetence and stupidity manifested by Trump on a daily basis.