The News Thread

[Internally Deformed]

Yes but does that mean we support his views, actions, etc? Because that's what you're implying with myself and Trump.

If all you're suggesting is I'm supporting him in some benign, boring, vapid sense of the word that you're pushing in order to make some dumb point, then fine. But there is no substance to this "support" you're ascribing to me.

That's not what I'm implying - I'm not equating your opinions with his. If I'm accusing you of something, it's of not being aware enough of just what a colossal fuck up he has the potential to be. If your assessment of her character is accurate, Hilary might end up being the worst president since Nixon, conceivably - although not IMO - but her failure would still be within the bounds of precedent. Trump could quite possibly be the most dangerous world leader in history, because only at this particular point in time, with this level of media gimmickry and disaffection with politics, could such a massive tool actually gain that kind of power.

You guys accused me of comparing Trump to Hitler earlier, but I think that's pretty unfair. Hitler actually had a brain.

 

[CiG]

Yes and you're ignoring the colossal fuck up that already is, not to mention you've not actually provided anything convincing in relation to Trump's potential for disaster beyond "I think he's dumb."

In fact, nothing about anything you've said convinces me or holds much water. You just seem like a butthurt fear-monger to be frank.
I could shred Trump all day in relation to his political campaign, but to suggest that he's basically Lucifer preparing to obliterate the earth should he get into the white house is just plain retardation.

It demonstrates a stark lack of understanding of the American political system. The American president has to answer to many people, it's not as if he can just commit genocide or pass laws at a whim. Stop watching movies pal, this isn't The Dead Zone.

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

 

[Internally Deformed]

I dunno what I have to be butthurt about, I'm not American so I don't have to feel any particular shame about Trump's popularity, and he hasn't won yet, so I can't be pissed about that either. I suspect projection.

As to him being Lucifer, no, again, as with Hitler, that implies intent, which as a moron he's pretty devoid of. And of course my grounds for criticism of Trump is that he's dumb - he's never held any kind of political office before, so I can't criticise him on his political record; he doesn't have one. We could go through his shady business practices (intentional bankruptcy, etc), but it isn't his crookedness that worries me.

What worries me is that he's really fucking stupid, as anyone who isn't also really fucking stupid could discern from listen to the man speak for about 30 seconds consecutively. And what's more, he combines stupidity with a level of egotism that may well prevent him from allowing others to make decisions where he is not qualified to do so.

As to the president's actual level of power, you're correct on a longer term level. It's unlikely Trump could enact any of his madder schemes because of the amount of opposition he'd meet, although saying that he's safe to elect because he probably won't be able to pull off any of the crazy shit he wants to do is a pretty retarded argument in favour of him. What you're not taking into account, though, is that the president is also the commander in chief, and is expected to respond to rapidly developing situations without mediation. If there were an event like the cuban missile crisis, or a global pandemic, or a 9/11 scale terrorist attack, all of which are perfectly possible, would you really want that frothing lunatic in charge? I doubt it.

 

[CiG]

I'm saying you're butthurt because your argument against Trump seems personal and emotional, rather than based on anything real.

What worries me is that he's really fucking stupid, as anyone who isn't also really fucking stupid could discern from listen to the man speak for about 30 seconds consecutively. And what's more, he combines stupidity with a level of egotism that may well prevent him from allowing others to make decisions where he is not qualified to do so.

What worries me is that you're unable to look beyond your rudimentary (and butthurt) feelings about Trump to see that he's quite clearly intelligent in a way that perhaps you're overlooking, his political opportunism is a great example, he's definitely smart enough to play the game of politics to the degree that he's now the frontrunner for the GOP with a pretty decent chance to defeat a career politician who is as vicious a political player as I have seen in my lifetime.

If there were an event like the cuban missile crisis, or a global pandemic, or a 9/11 scale terrorist attack, all of which are perfectly possible, would you really want that frothing lunatic in charge? I doubt it.

Everybody constantly implied that George Bush Jr. was a low IQ having chimp yet he didn't crumble during 9/11. Agree or disagree with what he did, you can't really argue that he was a weak leader that didn't know what to do in the face of a crisis.

I don't really see how he's a lunatic or any of the asinine things you're calling him. At this point I can't help but think you're just spewing bullshit.

 

[Internally Deformed]

I'm saying you're butthurt because your argument against Trump seems personal and emotional, rather than based on anything real.

There's nothing real to be engaged with with Trump. As has been stated, he has no clear set of principles, no relevant experience, and even supporters/apologists such as yourself have no idea what he really intends to do in the event that he gains power. So in a sense my criticism of Trump is personal: he as a person is not fit to be president. Your criticism of Hilary is identical, except that she does have positive and even presidential qualities that you seem irrationally bent on ignoring; for instance her skill in debates, her intimate knowledge of Washington, and her realistic and moderate set of policies.

What worries me is that you're unable to look beyond your rudimentary (and butthurt) feelings about Trump to see that he's quite clearly intelligent in a way that perhaps you're overlooking, his political opportunism is a great example, he's definitely smart enough to play the game of politics to the degree that he's now the frontrunner for the GOP with a pretty decent chance to defeat a career politician who is as vicious a political player as I have seen in my lifetime.

I suppose you're right in that he has a showman's cunning, which is a rather limited form of intellect that the other Republican nominees did not possess. Of course though he's become the frontrunner, he's also managed to alienate and ridicule all those who could have been his allies, foment unrest and racial tension within his country, debase political debate, erode factual accountability, and permanently damage the Republican party's credibility in the process. So not really so smart except in a very narrow, self-interested way.

Everybody constantly implied that George Bush Jr. was a low IQ having chimp yet he didn't crumble during 9/11. Agree or disagree with what he did, you can't really argue that he was a weak leader that didn't know what to do in the face of a crisis.

I don't really see how he's a lunatic or any of the asinine things you're calling him. At this point I can't help but think you're just spewing bullshit.

Need I refer you to the recorded footage of George Bush's actual reaction to the news of 9/11? He sat surrounded by schoolchildren for several minutes looking more like a lost child than anyone else in the room. To his credit, although George W. Bush is hardly a genius, he had the humility to defer to Dick Cheney and his advisers when it came to making important decisions, a quality I fear Trump lacks. Even so, Bush's response to 9/11 committed the USA to two expensive failed wars which destabilised the Middle East and created a power vacuum, counter-intuitively acting as the single greatest breeding ground for terrorist activity in the world today. So again, not so smart.

As to Trump being a lunatic, we're talking about a man who believes that Global Warming is a Chinese conspiracy to undermine the American economy. Go figure.

 

[CiG]

Even so, Bush's response to 9/11 committed the USA to two expensive failed wars which destabilised the Middle East and created a power vacuum, counter-intuitively acting as the single greatest breeding ground for terrorist activity in the world today. So again, not so smart.

Which Hillary supported and Trump did not.

 

[Internally Deformed]

True about Hilary, which is why I have my reservations about her. But Donald Trump having been opposed to it is just more Trumped up doublespeak bullshit: http://www.factcheck.org/2016/02/donald-trump-and-the-iraq-war/

The fact that he can even get away with saying it epitomises the nature of the problem. He lies so prolifically and so variously that people lose track of what's bullshit and what is not.

 

[Einherjar86]

I don't care about Benghazi except insofar as it was apart of the entire Libyan debacle, which pretty much everyone has laid at Clinton's feet - her baby. That entire operation is the most recent example of the sort of dumpsterfire she can create when she has significant input into foreign policy - particularly as it relates to warwaging. #LibyanLivesMatter. But she did straight up lie - repeatedly, about the emails.

Yes, the emails. To repeat myself, politicians lie. Trump has lied (or, to be fair, equivocated) multiple times during the campaign, not to mention prior to it (e.g. numerous business deals, his financial affairs, his prestigious university, etc.). Every president has lied in some way, shape, or form to the public.

Many of the positions against Hillary measure her unfairly against an already-established precedent.

tl;dr - authenticity is overrated.

His opinions are pretty open. He hasn't expressed detailed plans. This is smart for someone who, you know, doesn't actually have experience in how things work in office. He's absolutely egomaniacal. But he isn't stupid.

I suggest you guys read some Scott Adams for some perspective that isn't being shoveled to you by HuffPo et al.

I don't read HuffPost.

His opinions are very open, they're just really malleable if not outright ephemeral. This doesn't bother me in and of itself - people can change their minds. Unfortunately he doesn't seem to have much of a mind to change.

It's so unsettling and surreal to see people say "how can you vote for Hillary knowing all this?" when I honestly feel that she's the better choice than Trump. Yes, she's lied about emails... I really don't care. It jeopardized vital national information, like Snowden's leak... but then, I don't believe that Snowden should have to be on the run either.

This is the cycle. Politicians lie about information when they see it as necessary to do so (either for national security or for their own benefit). One way or another, information will out. This isn't a big concern for me.

 

[Dak]

I guess some people are conversely thinking that what Trump would do will out just like any other sort of information, so they aren't worried about that.

There are some solid reasons to be concerned about a Trump presidency (which is why I won't be voting) - it's just he shares those things with Clinton and nearly every other politician. But being concerned about his intellect or that he's going to start racial pogroms or nuke the world or whatever is pretty lolable to me.

 

[CiG]

Hillary says anybody under FBI investigation shouldn't be allowed to own a firearm, yet she feels entitled to run for presidency under the same circumstances.

She can go fuck herself.

 

[arg]

Here are reasons why Trump is better than Hillary:

Border
- Trump may not be able to build the wall, but even if he builds part of it, strengthens the border in some way, or gives more authority to border patrol, that would be great.
- Hillary will not build a wall or strengthen the border at all. She will actively welcome illegals in. She will tell border patrol to stand down and let them in like Obama did.

Deportation
- Trump may not be able to deport 11 million illegals, but even if he deports SOME or A LOT, that would be great.
- Hillary will not deport anybody. She will actively grant them citizenship!

Muslims
- Trump may not be able to ban all Muslims, but he will push for extreme vetting.
- Hillary is bought off by Muslims, Soros, and leftist globalist organizations that love them and want to see them destabilize the world

Refugees
- Trump will not bring in refugees
- Hillary will bring in tens of thousands of refugees, force them into American towns that don't want them, and force taxpayers to pay for them

Taxes and regulations
- Trump will lower taxes for all citizens and corporations which will be good for the economy. He will make regulations easier for businesses to comply
- Hillary will raise taxes on everyone to fund her big government social programs which will be failures. She will create more stifling regulations and shut down entire industries

Trade
- Trump is against NAFTA and TPP which kill American jobs
- Hillary helped write that shit

War
- Trump will scale back our global military presence and only jump in when it benefits us
- Hillary is a warmongering lunatic

Healthcare
- Trump will abolish Obamacare, an expensive, ineffective disaster and replace it with a free market system
- Hillary will expand upon that monstrosity

 

[CiG]

True about Hilary, which is why I have my reservations about her. But Donald Trump having been opposed to it is just more Trumped up doublespeak bullshit: http://www.factcheck.org/2016/02/donald-trump-and-the-iraq-war/

The fact that he can even get away with saying it epitomises the nature of the problem. He lies so prolifically and so variously that people lose track of what's bullshit and what is not.

That link doesn't prove what you're trying to use it to prove. If anything that link proves that he had some rather complicated feelings about it.

I wonder what Hillary said about it in the same period.

 

[Internally Deformed]

Even the guy who actually wrote The Art of The Deal thinks Trump is a dangerous moron:

 

[Internally Deformed]

That link doesn't prove what you're trying to use it to prove. If anything that link proves that he had some rather complicated feelings about it.

I wonder what Hillary said about it in the same period.

"Trump indicated his support for war in a radio interview with shock jock Howard Stern on Sept. 11, 2002 — a little more than six months before the war started."

The difference between Trump and Hilary is that we know for sure what she did and didn't say. She can't get away with simply making things up; in fact no politician can to the extent that Trump does. The fact that it's vague how strongly Trump actually supported the war isn't an argument in his favour, it typifies his case - this is a guy who can't make up his mind, because he has no mind to make up.

 

[Dak]

rimlord = arg?

 

[CiG]

I think it's more because he wants to have as many stances available for his game as possible. As I said, he's an opportunist.

You see a dumb person. I see a calculating game player. In my view you're underestimating him.

 

[Internally Deformed]

I see a calculating game player. In my view you're underestimating him.

If that were true, it would be the more worrying option tbh, as the nature of the game he is playing is to deny the public anything solid on which to assess his electability (which refers to my earlier comments about Trump being anathema to the democratic process).

IMO there is an element of calculation to his campaign at this stage, but it arose in response to his blundering style, which I don't think he can choose to switch on or off. More like a kind of "hey this actually works, we can use this" from his campaign team than a pre-planned, arch strategy of incoherence and obfuscation.

 

[Dak]

She can't get away with simply making things up

lolwut?

But sure. Donald Trump has simply buffooned his way into being The Trump. Maybe intelligence is overrated.

 

[CiG]

You keep mentioning how he isn't giving enough information for voters to choose with, well his supporters exist and are many, they don't seem to have a problem.

Anyway this has gone on forever.