The News Thread

[Internally Deformed]

Now you're just being disingenuous. Majority of the people that hate him, hate him because of his expressed opinions.
Specifically his immigration policy, but I myself dislike him based on his proposed economic policies.

I'm not saying he's not flip-flopped on issues, he has certainly done that. The biggest problem in my opinion with Hillary Clinton is the clarity of just how terrible she is. Trump is a gamble, his ego could mean he starts a war with China or he tries to have the best presidency possible so he's remembered glowingly. It could mean that he ignores all of his experts or it could mean that he relies more heavily on his experts because his ego makes him proud of his cabinet.

Clinton however is a human trashfire. It's burning, it's directly under our nostrils and in our vision, yet she tries to lie about it. It's all right there in our faces and that kind of clarity will make most other things look great in comparison. She pretends to be a feminist and says rape victims must be believed, which given her past is disgustingly ironic.

Personally, I would have voted for Bernie Sanders, since I agree with many of his social policies and his terrible economics would either be blocked by the democratic system or be implemented and finally put the last nail in the coffin of American socialism.

The problem is the flip-flopping. As you said yourself, he used to be a Hilary supporter. Has his actual opinion changed? Is what he is saying now simply designed to garner support from a certain overlooked and enraged section of the public? There is simply no way of knowing, because he hasn't got the mental wherewithal to present a clear and consistent set of ideas by which the public can choose to elect him. Without knowing what he actually stands for, the electorate is denied an informed choice, which goes completely against the grain of everything we understand about democracy. To elect him is to vote against the democratic process.

I'm not going to defend Hilary because I'm not exactly enamored with her myself. But the problem with your thinking is that you lack the imagination to see just how bad Trump could, and almost certainly will, be. The sum total of all Hilary's supposed blunders in 16 years as a top level career politician (and more if you include her tenure as a first lady) won't even come close to the level of damage Trump is capable of inflicting on the world within weeks of taking office. I take your point that he's a gamble, but what you're discounting is what we already do know about him: that he is willing to do and say anything to gain power, that he lacks tact and diplomatic skill, that he lacks a basic understanding of domestic and international politics, that he is dishonest in his dealings and immoral in his treatment of his inferiors, and that he has a profound need for attention that hints at some much deeper and more disturbing character flaws.

 

[CiG]

To elect him is to vote against the democratic process.

Make sure there is a couch behind you before you faint. Jesus Christ, dramatic much?
If anything, electing someone who would be a legitimate criminal if they weren't a member of the Clinton crime family is against the concept of democracy.

But that's a melodramatic path to take this discussion down.

But the problem with your thinking is that you lack the imagination to see just how bad Trump could, and almost certainly will, be.

The problem with your thinking is that in order to write Trump off you actually need to use your imagination, whereas I merely need to use facts to write Hillary off.

I prefer facts personally. Each to his own.

willing to do and say anything to gain power,

The sum total of Hillary's character in one misused sentence.

that he is dishonest in his dealings and immoral in his treatment of his inferiors, and that he has a profound need for attention that hints at some much deeper flaws of character.

This is just becoming ironic in the extreme...

 

[Dak]

Here is my impersonation of ID:

trumpishitler.jpg

 

[CiG]

 

[Internally Deformed]

1.) If a politician fails to put forward a clear set of policies and opinions to the public, there are no facts on which to base your support on them. For a Trump supporter to suggest that he values facts above imagination is laughable - the whole point of your argument is that we have no idea what the fuck he will actually do.

2.) Any elected politician will have made decisions that are open to criticism. By your logic an uninitiate will always de facto be preferable to a qualified contender, which is clearly nonsensical. In fact, by your logic literally anyone about who we know nothing would be more desirable than Hilary Clinton as a candidate for office.

3.) All politicians are ambitious and egotistical. But Trump embodies those qualities. He doesn't attempt to hide them because he's actually made a brand out of being the ultimate arsehole. And this is the guy you're suggesting for president.

 

[CiG]

I'm not a Trump supporter, maybe it's not so much that I (and Trump) don't express our opinions clearly but that you simply have trouble processing them?

 

[Internally Deformed]

I'm not a Trump supporter, maybe it's not so much that I (and Trump) don't express our opinions clearly but that you simply have trouble processing them?

Is Trump pro-choice or pro-life? Is he fiscally conservative or fiscally liberal? Is he pro intervention in foreign conflicts, or against it? Is he Christian or Atheist?

Find me any statement he has made on any of these issues and I'll find you another statement he has made or a fact flatly contradicting it. You couldn't tell me yourself whether the opinions he professes now are his actual point of view, a tactic to gain support, or a smokescreen to trick oh-what-the-fuck voters like yourself into electing him.

As to your opinions, how the fuck should I know?

 

[CiG]

Is Trump pro-choice or pro-life? Is he fiscally conservative or fiscally liberal? Is he pro intervention in foreign conflicts, or against it? Is he Christian or Atheist?

Find me any statement he has made on any of these issues and I'll find you another statement he has made or a fact flatly contradicting it. You couldn't tell me yourself whether the opinions he professes now are his actual point of view, a tactic to gain support, or a smokescreen to trick oh-what-the-fuck voters like yourself into electing him.

I have already said that I recognise that he flip-flops. I think the concept of anything being better than Hillary is confusing you because you're mistaking a refusal to support Hillary with a desire to support Trump. It's a protest vote in a way.

Actually if you follow Japanese politics with any regularity, Trump is very reminiscent of a Japanese politician. Nativist bluster, talk of prosperity and bright futures but not much in the way of specific policy.

As to your opinions, how the fuck should I know?

Obviously because you don't seem to read much of what I'm saying and it has you confused into thinking I am a Trump supporter. I don't even live in America.

 

[Internally Deformed]

I have already said that I recognise that he flip-flops. I think the concept of anything being better than Hillary is confusing you because you're mistaking a refusal to support Hillary with a desire to support Trump. It's a protest vote in a way.

What I'm confused by is how an otherwise seemingly intelligent individual could think that supporting a belligerent, malicious and moronic TV personality for the most important political office in the world is in any way a sane response to a dislike for a given political candidate, no matter how bad. And Hilary is by no means the worst.

Actually if you follow Japanese politics with any regularity, Trump is very reminiscent of a Japanese politician. Nativist bluster, talk of prosperity and bright futures but not much in the way of specific policy.

I can't say that I do. I'm going to take a stab in the dark and guess that if that's even an accurate assessment, the difference is that the Japanese politicians actually have policies and political standpoints, they just don't make them the subject of their campaign.

Obviously because you don't seem to read much of what I'm saying and it has you confused into thinking I am a Trump supporter. I don't even live in America.

Yeah, you're Australian, I remember. Still, you've just spent several hundred words explaining to me why in your opinion Trump happens to be the best choice out of the available candidates for office, i.e. you want him to win, i.e. you support him.

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

And Hilary is by no means the worst.

Oh she's definitely up there.

 

[Dak]

I prefer assholes and people who will change their opinions to people who lack either the morals and/or wisdom to prevent them from lying about deeds that happen to be both bad and easily excavated. I prefer someone who might, even probably will, do terrible things to someone who most definitely will. But like I said, I haven't voted in over a decade and have no intention to start wasting my time punching pointless tickets now.

 

[Internally Deformed]

Well her husband was already President, and the world didn't exactly come to a standstill. In fact he presided over the longest period of economic prosperity in the history of the United States.

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

... Reagan and Bush handed him that America bruh.

 

[Internally Deformed]

So I guess Bush Jr must have fucked it all up then?

 

[viewerfromnihil]

... Reagan and Bush handed him that America bruh.

Thanks for giving Clinton those recessions to recover from, Reagan and Bush

 

[CiG]

What I'm confused by is how an otherwise seemingly intelligent individual could think that supporting a belligerent, malicious and moronic TV personality for the most important political office in the world is in any way a sane response to a dislike for a given political candidate, no matter how bad. And Hilary is by no means the worst.

Are you drunk or just dense? I've said it multiple times by now that I don't support a Trump presidency.

Yeah, you're Australian, I remember. Still, you've just spent several hundred words explaining to me why in your opinion Trump happens to be the best choice out of the available candidates for office, i.e. you want him to win, i.e. you support him.

Okay, well by that logic, by rejecting the only candidate capable of beating Hillary, you support all the negative activities she's done.

You support character assassinations of rape victims, you support knowingly being so negligent with classified materials that you potentially leaked them to possibly unfriendly foreign governments or agents. You support also lying about it.

Woah you're a terrible person supporting all of those things. What's wrong with you?

Oh she's definitely up there.

Where is this quoted from? I don't remember typing it hehe.

 

[Internally Deformed]

Are you drunk or just dense? I've said it multiple times by now that I don't support a Trump presidency.

Okay, well by that logic, by rejecting the only candidate capable of beating Hillary, you support all the negative activities she's done.

You support character assassinations of rape victims, you support knowingly being so negligent with classified materials that you potentially leaked them to possibly unfriendly foreign governments or agents. You support also lying about it.

Woah you're a terrible person supporting all of those things. What's wrong with you?

You would prefer Trump to win, no? That means you support him for president. Likewise I'd rather Hilary won. What is unclear about that? It doesn't mean either of us think our choice is a perfect person. It also doesn't mean that we're somehow accountable for all the fucked up things they've done.

Support is not equivalent to outright adulation. That's just basic semantics.

 

[CiG]

We supported Stalin against Hitler, therefore we support Stalin?

 

[Internally Deformed]

We supported Stalin against Hitler, therefore we support Stalin?

We supported Stalin against Hitler, therefore we supported Stalin.

 

[CiG]

We supported Stalin against Hitler, therefore we supported Stalin.

Yes but does that mean we support his views, actions, etc? Because that's what you're implying with myself and Trump.

If all you're suggesting is I'm supporting him in some benign, boring, vapid sense of the word that you're pushing in order to make some dumb point, then fine. But there is no substance to this "support" you're ascribing to me.