The News Thread

[Dak]

Diversity is essential to healthy functioning. However, that doesn't mean you need ten different viewpoints on something for success. In fact, to accomplish super ordinate goals you need a significant majority of mostly similar mind on important issues, and you need a slight injection (like say 10%) of differential thought/behavior. This works on both biological and cultural scales.

 

[Blind Guardian]

I'm just reacting to video footage. Not sure how video footage can be hyperbolic.

Suggesting that reporters can't enter immigrant neighbourhoods without getting assaulted is hyperbolic. Also, saying that Sweden is trash is hyperbolic.

 

[CiG]

Suggesting that reporters can't enter immigrant neighbourhoods without getting assaulted is hyperbolic. Also, saying that Sweden is trash is hyperbolic.

Again, not suggesting anything. Merely pointing out what I have seen in video footage.

But yes the trash remark was obviously hyperbolic.

 

[Blind Guardian]

You wrote "neighbourhoods", like it's a common occurance, even though you're referring to one event.

Sweden's got problems with multiculturalism and would be better off without it, but it's no different than in most Western countries. Take a white Australian news crew with big cameras into some Chicago slum and chances are they're going to draw negative attention, sometimes even violent. It doesn't mean America as a whole is like that though.

 

[Einherjar86]

The immigrant topic as a whole is exaggerated by Western media. The news latches onto one story and makes like the country's being invaded. When meanwhile we have angry white rednecks shooting Indians in Kansas bars. Because, you know, Indian = terrorist.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/24/us/kansas-olathe-bar-shooting/index.html

 

[CiG]

Oh yeah it's all an overexaggeration.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

It often is. Muslim immigrant neighborhoods in Detroit are safer than the alternative, for example.

 

[CiG]

Mobs of immigrants attacking a news team vs a drunk racist redneck. What a strange counterpoint to make.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Murder vs battery, what a strange counterpoint to make.

 

[CiG]

Drunken murder vs a mob of sober people, agreed it is a very strange counterpoint.

Also, who cares about Muslim immigrant neighbourhoods in America? Are you saying you think America receives the same quality of Muslim immigrants than Europe? Because that would be very ignorant.

 

[Blind Guardian]

Oh yeah it's all an overexaggeration.

Ironically this post is also hyperbole. Einherjar said the issues are often overblown and sensationalized; not that they don't exist. I'm surprised at how hard it is for many people to see through obvious BS, whether the information supports their agenda or not, and instead take in the world with some nuance.

 

[CiG]

Ironically this post is also hyperbole. Einherjar said the issues are often overblown and sensationalized; not that they don't exist. I'm surprised at how hard it is for many people to see through obvious BS, whether the information supports their agenda or not, and instead take in the world with some nuance.

I'm perfectly capable of being nuanced. I don't understand why Europeans are so incapable of coming to terms with what is happening in Europe. I never stated (which Ein implied others do and perhaps includes me) that Europe is being invaded.

I merely stated that in immigrant neighbourhoods, you can be attacked if you're a reporter. You went on to claim it was hyperbolic and cited articles being the problem here, but I am talking about video footage and sound recordings. Then you have the incident of the raped woman being livestreamed on Facebook and when she calls the police, the rapists are standing there laughing at the whole situation. Again, video footage.

 

[Einherjar86]

That implication wasn't directed at anyone here, it was directed at how the news--specifically the conservative media engine--treats any single episode of immigrant violence. That is, as a symptom of an epidemic.

But I actually thought your over-exaggeration comment was sincere... but you were being sarcastic?

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Drunken murder vs a mob of sober people, agreed it is a very strange counterpoint.

Also, who cares about Muslim immigrant neighbourhoods in America? Are you saying you think America receives the same quality of Muslim immigrants than Europe? Because that would be very ignorant.

Minnesota takes in Somalis and they still commit less crime than our African-Americans.

 

[CiG]

But I actually thought your over-exaggeration comment was sincere... but you were being sarcastic?

I was being sarcastic. I don't think the worries of many people in Europe as well as the worries of those on the outside looking in are an overexaggeration.

At what point do enough events need to happen before people can be genuinely worried without elitists sneering at them?

Minnesota takes in Somalis and they still commit less crime than our African-Americans.

So?

 

[HamburgerBoy]

So?

So they aren't exactly "quality" immigrants like you may think they are, they aren't doctors or engineers, many are poorer and get here on refugee status.

 

[Blind Guardian]

I'm perfectly capable of being nuanced. I don't understand why Europeans are so incapable of coming to terms with what is happening in Europe. I never stated (which Ein implied others do and perhaps includes me) that Europe is being invaded.

I merely stated that in immigrant neighbourhoods, you can be attacked if you're a reporter. You went on to claim it was hyperbolic and cited articles being the problem here, but I am talking about video footage and sound recordings. Then you have the incident of the raped woman being livestreamed on Facebook and when she calls the police, the rapists are standing there laughing at the whole situation. Again, video footage.

Of course a reporter can be attacked in immigrant neighbourhoods, that goes without saying. The argument is over how common it is, not whether or not you can prove it has happened. The exaggeration is to point to patterns where there are none.

 

[CiG]

Of course a reporter can be attacked in immigrant neighbourhoods, that goes without saying. The argument is over how common it is, not whether or not you can prove it has happened. The exaggeration is to point to patterns where there are none.

It's not just about how common it is, at least not for me, it's that it fits into a pattern of other immigration-related events such as the Muhammad cartoon controversies.

So they aren't exactly "quality" immigrants like you may think they are, they aren't doctors or engineers, many are poorer and get here on refugee status.

It's overwhelmingly the case that America receives better quality immigration from Muslim majority countries.

 

[Einherjar86]

At what point do enough events need to happen before people can be genuinely worried without elitists sneering at them?

I wouldn't deny that undocumented immigrants have committed crimes, but this emphasis on a pattern frames the issues improperly, in my opinion. I just don't think the immigration itself is the problem, although it might certainly be a problem. At the danger of repeating a mis-characterization from our transgender discussion, it sounds like the proposal is to demonize an entire group of people (undocumented immigrants) as likely violent criminals because of the actions of some of them.

When it comes to violence, the issue of "undocumented" can be set aside. There's no reason why being undocumented would lead to increases in criminal behavior; if anything, undocumented immigrants do their best to abstain from crime over fear of being deported. So then the question becomes what is the relationship between immigration (undocumented or not) and criminality? And the general consensus by a lot of people seems to be that immigrants are more likely to commit crimes than registered citizens. I'm not familiar with the extent of research on this, but I'm led to believe that it's controversial at best, and at worst it's inaccurate (what sources are we relying on here to justify the existence of a pattern, anyway?). I'm not convinced that there is an excessive number of immigrant crimes taking place to warrant the construction of a narrative in which immigrants attract dissent, foster disunity, and commit violent crimes.

 

[CiG]

It's not specifically about immigration on it's own, it's about the cultures Europe is bringing in en masse, and it's exacerbated by the class of the immigrants.