The News Thread

[CiG]

Yeah, I guess Hitler really wasn't so bad when you put it that way, since beliefs are subjective and all

Pat already explained the flaw in the relativist argument you're making:

I understand what he said, that white supremacists come from a racist starting point, whereas BLM didn't. I however am not even conflating BLM with white supremacists. Somebody else did that.

what? how does that reply even make sense. i'm no communist

You said, why let the new Nazis have their way now. HBB is accusing you of advocating for McCarthyism against the alt-right, I think.
People are already making lists, identifying people who went to the rally and having them fired etc.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Who the fuck even quotes Jimmy Kimmel? By his own logic, he was too soft on Donald Trump when he was on his show and now Kimmel is complicit in white supremacy.

That's exactly what the Democrats did too, "How DARE Kimmel humanize a monster like Trump!". Guess he learned his lesson. Anyone that thinks this isn't primarily a political witchhunt is fooling themselves. And yes, that includes Rubio, Romney, and all the other milquetoast Republicans that had their shit packed in by Trump during the 2016 primary process. Most Republicans hate Trump and would love to see him ousted for 2020.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

I understand what he said, that white supremacists come from a racist starting point, whereas BLM didn't. I however am not even conflating BLM with white supremacists. Somebody else did that.

You said, why let the new Nazis have their way now. HBB is accusing you of advocating for McCarthyism against the alt-right, I think.
People are already making lists, identifying people who went to the rally and having them fired etc.

I'd argue that BLM did come from a racist starting point. You don't see people rioting when a black man legally shoots a poor innocent little angel of a white thug. BLM formed because they identify along racial grounds primarily. Today they're the more moderate face of it, filled with as many Starbucks-liberal white college students as black people, holding candlelight vigils and whatever, but the origins are at least racialist.

And yeah, that's what I'm saying regarding McCarthy. I think it's amazing that there are leftists arguing you can't compare Jefferson to Lee since only the latter betrayed his country, as if that somehow justifies not only slavery but a man that raped his slaves. And of course, leftists suddenly forget that there have been movements to remove statues of Jefferson, Madison, etc anyways.

 

[Baroque]

Again, how does that reply make sense, I made no comment about McCarthy or the alt-right or Jefferson

 

[CiG]

Again, how does that reply make sense, I made no comment about McCarthy or the alt-right or Jefferson

So what did you mean by why let the new Nazis have their way now?

One side is guilty of violence and shit beliefs. The other side is guilty of just violence. They're not the same.

@zabu of nΩd

All I am saying is, both sides are guilty of shit beliefs and violence. Racism isn't the only shit belief in existence and vigilante violence driven by far-left Socialist and Communist ideology doesn't become less shit simply because they're facing down ethno-nationalists and fascists.

This isn't WWII. You don't have to side with architects of misery and famine to defeat composers of genocide and racism.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Again, how does that reply make sense, I made no comment about McCarthy or the alt-right or Jefferson

Here's what you said:

"Nazism and the Confederacy are as un-American as it gets, we fought wars to stop both of them. And they try to call themselves patriots..

I assume you're okay with us defeating Nazi Germany, and defeating the Confederacy, with force. Why let the new Nazis have their way here in America, now?"

Here's what you could have just as easily said:

"Communism is as un-American as it gets, we fought wars to stop it. And they try to call themselves patriots..

I assume you're okay with us defeating Soviet Russia, and defeating their proxy nations, with force. Why let the new Commies have their way here in America, now?"

 

[Baroque]

So what did you mean by why let the new Nazis have their way now?

Well I meant exactly what I said. In the past we fought a war to defeat the Nazis. Why let the new Nazis demonstrate in America? Would we have let them in 1945? I'd like to think we've made even more progress since then. Why should we tolerate any demonstration, in our homeland, in support of a brutal foreign regime who were almost universally despised, and defeated long ago? Why should we tolerate the racism and hatred they promoted? Why should we let them bring these conflicts back again, why let them sow these unnecessary seeds of social discord?

 

[Baroque]

Here's what you could have just as easily said:

"Communism is as un-American as it gets, we fought wars to stop it. And they try to call themselves patriots..

I assume you're okay with us defeating Soviet Russia, and defeating their proxy nations, with force. Why let the new Commies have their way here in America, now?"

sure "just as easily" i could have said anything of the same length... but it's not what i said at all is it?

And again, I'm no communist, i don't know what you're trying to get at here.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Well I meant exactly what I said. In the past we fought a war to defeat the Nazis. Why let the new Nazis demonstrate in America? Would we have let them in 1945? I'd like to think we've made even more progress since then. Why should we tolerate any demonstration, in our homeland, in support of a brutal foreign regime who were almost universally despised, and defeated long ago? Why should we tolerate the racism and hatred they promoted? Why should we let them bring these conflicts back again, why let them sow these unnecessary seeds of social discord?

We let Nazis demonstrate in the 1950s and beyond, the Supreme Court has ruled many times that hate speech is still protected speech, and we have a bill of rights that explicitly protects political speech and ideas no matter the level of controversy, so in upholding our laws absolutely we should "tolerate" Nazis (where toleration means allowing them to peacefully demonstrate in public in accordance with safety laws, and protecting them against vigilantism).

You realize everything you just said could be said about communism, right?

 

[HamburgerBoy]

sure "just as easily" i could have said anything of the same length... but it's not what i said at all is it?

And again, I'm no communist, i don't know what you're trying to get at here.

Now you're just pretending to be retarded.

 

[Baroque]

No seriously, why do you keep bringing up communism?

I'm opposed to the alt right and the "alt left" but I think the "alt left" has the moral high ground in this fight.

I'm slightly left of center. pro democracy with some regulation on businesses, against communism and fascism. I'm anti racism. Does that clarify things? You seem to think it's only 2 sides. I've said my political stance before.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

No seriously, why do you keep bringing up communism?

I'll start simple:

1. Do you acknowledge that communism has historically been labeled "anti-American" and its believers subject to political witch hunts?
2. Are you aware that we've fought wars against communism?
3. Are you aware that we've censored communists in the past, including the banning of the American Communist Party?
4. Today, would you support bringing back the censorship of communism we've had in the past?

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

I'll quote Jimmy Kimmel

Lol. that says it all.

 

[Nate Skalman]

A decade of nothing but staring at video games, and iPhone screens has made bottle and rock violence the only form of physical release for a lot of these goobers...they look like RPG nerds "larping" to me- hockey pads, trash can lid shields lol!!!...They look like rioting sporting goods store employees!!! The kids on 'Lord of the Flies' had a better game plan!

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

Yeah, I guess Hitler really wasn't so bad when you put it that way, since beliefs are subjective and all

so what are you saying? We should eliminate and kill anyone who has wicked thoughts? Thoughts and beliefs are a crime? Hitler was a scumbag for what he and his regime DID, not imagined.

 

[CiG]

Well I meant exactly what I said. In the past we fought a war to defeat the Nazis. Why let the new Nazis demonstrate in America? Would we have let them in 1945? I'd like to think we've made even more progress since then. Why should we tolerate any demonstration, in our homeland, in support of a brutal foreign regime who were almost universally despised, and defeated long ago? Why should we tolerate the racism and hatred they promoted? Why should we let them bring these conflicts back again, why let them sow these unnecessary seeds of social discord?

I'm anti-authoritarian, there's no way I would support anyone who wanted to censor or ban music

Fantastic lyrics honestly if you're an anti-authoritarian centrist like me.

I'm anti-authoritarian in most every circumstance, in that I don't think the government should take away any freedoms from the common man.

 

[Nate Skalman]

 

[Baroque]

1. Do you acknowledge that communism has historically been labeled "anti-American" and its believers subject to political witch hunts?

yes

2. Are you aware that we've fought wars against communism?

yes

3. Are you aware that we've censored communists in the past, including the banning of the American Communist Party?

yes

4. Today, would you support bringing back the censorship of communism we've had in the past?

in cases of violent/racist demonstration yes.

I don't support communism. at the same time, it doesn't simultaneously stand for racism in this country the way nazism does.

I support freedom of speech but there's a point where lines are crossed and you're inciting riots and threats and physical combat. That's when it goes too far, and it should have been broken up. Blatantly racist demonstrations should not be tolerated.

This discussion is not about communism why am i replying to this

 

[HamburgerBoy]

"What the fuck is Trump talking about? No one is comparing Lee with Jefferson!"



lmao

 

[CiG]

I support freedom of speech but there's a point where lines are crossed and you're inciting riots and threats and physical combat. That's when it goes too far, and it should have been broken up. Blatantly racist demonstrations should not be tolerated.

The exact same arguments Muslims use to try to ban drawings of Muhammad or criticism of their religion and justify violence that occurs when the bans aren't met.

Well I meant exactly what I said. In the past we fought a war to defeat the Nazis. Why let the new Nazis demonstrate in America? Would we have let them in 1945? I'd like to think we've made even more progress since then.

You have, since then you have way less oppression of minorities and way more freedom for thought, speech, expression, demonstration and so on.

That feeling when a anti-authoritarian is actually a milquetoast authoritarian and doesn't realise it.