HamburgerBoy
Active Member
- Sep 16, 2007
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I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around your perspective here. It strikes me as utterly perverse. It's precisely that the U.S. has hate crime laws that makes it less leftist than China. Hate crime laws and speech norms/mores are the product of liberal democracy, not an authoritarian leftist regime. Furthermore, practices of censorship are pushed, for the most part, by the public sphere. They aren't policies instituted by a central government.
Even in the case when we are discussing centrally instituted parameters, like hate crime laws, these aren't leftist. Hate crime laws are historically modern and arose from democratic processes. They have no basis in authoritarianism.
Hate crime law is basically modern blasphemy law and has more in common with state religion than anything. The use of law to punish out-crowd speech is ancient and nothing can be less classically liberal than absolute freedom of speech. Democracy is merely a mode of government and has nothing intrinsically to do with hate speech law; it's meta-government.
What is being mandated by the state? In the U.S., the central government might go along with currents that originate in the public sphere, but they aren't mandating what you seem to think they are. The state might pursue a case brought to them by individual plaintiffs, but that's why we have a state with branches of government. In many cases it's impossible for an individual to amass the capital and expertise needed to bring a suit.
Insofar as the state enables these discussions... that's the whole purpose of having a state. The alternative would be a lawless, stateless assemblage of warring clans. It seems to me that you'd characterize almost any manifestation of a state as leftist, simply to varying degrees; i.e. as soon as you have a state, you're leftist.
When Twitter deplatformed Trump, that wasn't an infringement on free speech. That was a private company making a business decision. When liberals boycotted Chick-fil-A because they don't like something the president said, or whoever, that's not the state interfering with business; it's private citizens voicing their dissent.
What you're claiming is state-run censorship and interference is just a democratic public sphere acting on its misgivings.
I didn't mention Twitter and I honestly don't even care about social media and the validity of social monopoly. I'm talking about a mother being fired from her job because her police officer son shot a criminal of a different race, a right-wing news writer being dropped from his private insurance for his politics, right-wing college students forbidden from having PayPal accounts, a business executive using the phrase "get off welfare" turning to a massive lawsuit defended at the Supreme Court, competitor social media being blacklisted by every financial power in the country, etc. This has all accelerated in the post Operation Chokepoint era where Obama dictated by fiat to various banks which businesses they may or may not provide services to. Contemporaneously, of course, these same banks ("private businesses" as you might call them) enjoy trillion dollar bailouts courtesy of the taxpayer and enjoyed almost absolute immunity from competition as Obama stopped virtually all new bank charters over his presidency and approved further mergers. The entire finance sector is more politically powerful as a private glove for public hands than it would be outright nationalized, hence, more left-wing than a lot of communism.
You're wrong that corporate law is a left-wing construction. I have a hard time finding where to begin here. It's a refutation and dismissal of actual economic and social history. The very fact that a corporation is treated in many respects as a person is key here; it's an individual that has the rights of an individual, except in certain respects. My guess is that you're lumping corporatism in with leftism; but corporatism in the liberal West is distinct from other brands of corporatism that have arisen since the nineteenth century.
States may have granted freedoms to companies in the early days of capitalism, i.e. the sixteenth/seventeenth century (e.g. charters for the Dutch East India Company, et al); but this was when feudal structures still held sway. Very shortly after this, state power in the West waned as capital grew. I'm not saying the state went away, but it increasingly functioned as a facilitator for the growth of capital--not the other way around.
I was probably speaking too broadly; maybe I should have said "American corporate law". Incorporation of business in 19th century America was in general fairly rare and limited to businesses that states traditionally had substantial control over, such as banks, and the use of incorporation was as much a tool to mediate state-private relationships as anything. The mere act of acquiring capital to invest in a business and produce product only required state assistance for legal reasons, not material ones. A wide small/family-business middle class defined America's economy that afaik nowhere else in the world could be compared to, up until FDR saw the rise of a new corporation-dominated landscape. The rise of the corporate class depended fully on the rise of leftist government.
Anyone has the "freedom" to be sued by anyone. You're not making a point. Tech giants serve a social purpose: they're communications media. They're not state sanctioned or sponsored; they're private companies, although some are publicly traded. That they're granted more exceptions by the government doesn't mean the government is leftist, but that it's deeply capitalist (or corporatist). In the U.S., government regulation and interference--even FDR--has always been for the ultimate purpose of maintaining economic growth and stability.
So again, all I see here is "government = leftism." That's not a productive claim, and it's also not historically accurate. You're redefining leftism to suit your interests. Ordinary speech and evolution of language are all well and good, but you're doing so in a rhetorically particular and pernicious way.
The point is that civil law is now more retributive than criminal law, and the number of things one can be held liable for in either court is as high as any time in American history. Right of contract, the rights of two private parties to make agreements and settle disputes without public interference, was substantially and explicitly protected until FDR raped the commerce clause into doing his bidding. And tech giants are certainly state sanctioned and sponsored, as I already listed out: AT&T's secret government spy rooms, increasingly lengthy intellectual property protections, protection from foreign competition, no-bid contracts, all of the banking stuff mentioned above, etc.
My left-right axis is simply collective-individual control. I don't see where you actually explain what it means to you.