CiG
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"PolitiFact did this fact check seeking to minimize his role which was just a lie, PolitiFact should retract its fact check." - Blumenthal
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crimsonfloyd
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CiG
Approximately Infinite Universe
So now I'm at the part where Blumenthal outlines how this guy played significant roles in instigating violence and destruction at BLM protests. This is definitely his thing.
Yeah accelerating the collapse is what I should have said, haha. Isn't there a specific term for that? I think the idea is that some kind of revolution will come from the chaos if it gets bad enough.
To be fair, the information Blumenthal is laying down makes him sound pretty uniquely fucking toxic, like way worse than your garden variety anarchist activist or whatever. This guy is apparently blacklisted by a shitload of BLM chapters across the country for being too much of a bad presence, noting that arrest rates always increased whenever he got involved.
Yeah accelerating the collapse is what I should have said, haha. Isn't there a specific term for that? I think the idea is that some kind of revolution will come from the chaos if it gets bad enough.
To be fair, the information Blumenthal is laying down makes him sound pretty uniquely fucking toxic, like way worse than your garden variety anarchist activist or whatever. This guy is apparently blacklisted by a shitload of BLM chapters across the country for being too much of a bad presence, noting that arrest rates always increased whenever he got involved.
Einherjar86
Active Member
Haha, wat. How do we arrive at these moments?
You already said you don’t think it was anything but a right-wing riot. I’m saying that Sullivan’s presence doesn’t change that. This was a riot primarily instigated by the president, and in some cases premeditated by right-wing rioters who came with guns.
That Sullivan had a knife and got swept up in the bullshit isn’t a sign of anything other than that he’s a solitary chaos actor. It doesn’t change the dynamics of the event by any meaningful standard.
No, it shouldn’t. His role was minimal. The footage on his phone is one perspective among thousands. We can’t jump to the conclusion that it was the determinative element within the mass.
CiG
Approximately Infinite Universe
He didn't just "have a knife" he was offering it to the people trying to break in, to use as some kind of tool (like a screwdriver or something to crack a window).
See this is why your comments are a bit worthless, no offence, but you just haven't watched or read anything other than the initial wave of hot takes. I'm not saying he was a catalyst or a determinative element just that his presence had significance (which the evidence Blumenthal lays out demonstrates imo).
The reason I'm saying you're coming off as a coping partisan is because you're so desperate to dismiss counter-information that you're doing it without actually seeing/reading it.
See this is why your comments are a bit worthless, no offence, but you just haven't watched or read anything other than the initial wave of hot takes. I'm not saying he was a catalyst or a determinative element just that his presence had significance (which the evidence Blumenthal lays out demonstrates imo).
The reason I'm saying you're coming off as a coping partisan is because you're so desperate to dismiss counter-information that you're doing it without actually seeing/reading it.
Einherjar86
Active Member
What kind of significance are you talking about? Because I feel like you’re saying something different than I am.
I’m saying that if you removed Sullivan from the situation, the overall effect would have been the same. I’m not denying he participated and did shit. But that’s different than substantiating his role to the point that the right can latch onto it as evidence that the left perpetrated the riot.
I’m saying that if you removed Sullivan from the situation, the overall effect would have been the same. I’m not denying he participated and did shit. But that’s different than substantiating his role to the point that the right can latch onto it as evidence that the left perpetrated the riot.
CiG
Approximately Infinite Universe
Yeah I'm definitely not saying that, if you recall my first comment was just that it's interesting that people who even claim he was part of the riot get fact checked and flagged as false information.
His significance is that in all the video footage available out there, he's one of the loudest and most constant voices of incitement at the riot. He himself engaged in very little rioting, he broke a window or something but that's it. If you have a single individual of any stripe at any protest/riot and they're spouting a message of "burn this shit down" to damn near every single person they interact with, and they tell cops who are extremely outnumbered "we want you to make it home, just let them through" moments before the mob breaks down a door, that's noteworthy in any context as far as I'm concerned.
This guy apparently has a history of doing this kind of shit. If a place is on fire, it will burn down, that doesn't mean the guy running around dumping gasoline on it is insignificant.
His significance is that in all the video footage available out there, he's one of the loudest and most constant voices of incitement at the riot. He himself engaged in very little rioting, he broke a window or something but that's it. If you have a single individual of any stripe at any protest/riot and they're spouting a message of "burn this shit down" to damn near every single person they interact with, and they tell cops who are extremely outnumbered "we want you to make it home, just let them through" moments before the mob breaks down a door, that's noteworthy in any context as far as I'm concerned.
This guy apparently has a history of doing this kind of shit. If a place is on fire, it will burn down, that doesn't mean the guy running around dumping gasoline on it is insignificant.
HamburgerBoy
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HamburgerBoy
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https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/executive-order-revocation-executive-order-13770/
Revoked his own executive order which had banned post-administration lobbying for 5 years, on his last day of office. He really needs that money.
Not sure if he's a bigger fraud than Clinton/W/Obama yet, but he's certainly well on-par. His last-day pardons are a disgrace too; Obama's commutation of Manning was cringe in that it was engineered for the purpose of sucking off the trans crowd, but at least there was a commutation. I'm actually feeling cautiously optimistic about a Biden administration now, even though the police state will undoubtedly reach record new powers.
Revoked his own executive order which had banned post-administration lobbying for 5 years, on his last day of office. He really needs that money.
Not sure if he's a bigger fraud than Clinton/W/Obama yet, but he's certainly well on-par. His last-day pardons are a disgrace too; Obama's commutation of Manning was cringe in that it was engineered for the purpose of sucking off the trans crowd, but at least there was a commutation. I'm actually feeling cautiously optimistic about a Biden administration now, even though the police state will undoubtedly reach record new powers.
rms
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Einherjar86
Active Member
Of course he's a bigger fraud--his entire presidency has been about using the office to further his business interests. How is this even a question?
zabu of nΩd
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HamburgerBoy
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Yeah a lot of his supporters seem pretty pissed right now. I'm reading murmurings of an Ivanka Trump Governor of Florida run which would be amazingly terrible, and if he tries reinventing himself as some kind of centrist pardoner-of-celebrities-and-millionaires for 2024, I could actually see his base crumbling and failing to get the nomination (unless he runs third-party and guarantees as Rep loss). I mean, fucking Mitt Romney of all people is now grilling Biden's cabinet nominees over the incoming immigrant caravan, and Trump has said jack shit on his main 2016 platform basically ever since the wuflu hit. If Trump gets socially/culturally out-righted by a neoliberal "principled conservative" former Massachusetts Governor, he's toast.
EDIT: Oh and I saw that Tom Cotton held up the nomination of Avril Haines temporarily until she answered a question to his satisfaction. When I first read the story on CNN it was difficult to even figure out exactly what the full context was, seeming odd that Tom Cotton (a relatively junior Senator) would be talking about investigations around CIA waterboarding from the 00s. Then I realized that the entire media was, in the most poker-faced way possible, essentially saying that Cotton forced her to commit to not pursuing criminal investigations of the obviously illegal act of torturing, trying to make Cotton look like the good guy for the sake of incoming Avril Haines who had just given him the thumbs up.
Waterboarding/Guantanamo/etc was never really my big schtick to begin with so it's not like I'm personally outraged, but it shows first and foremost that the priority is always in the state protecting its own, and secondly how shallow Biden's commitment to any real progressive causes will be. But hey there's a deadly virus and an insurrection going on, we can't afford to wait. Anyone thinking these next four years are going to be boring is crazy.
I dunno, more like a 45 at most. I've never thought Trump was particularly honest except in the "He blurts out whatever he's thinking at the moment" kind of way, but I didn't expect him to so blatantly shit on his own MAGAtards regarding draining the swamp. Based on what I know of Lil Wayne's pardon I actually support it, and I get the pandering intent to it, but pardoning a bunch of ultra-millionaire fraud scumbags and an ultra-corrupt Democratic mayor over any number of other candidates is just insult to injury.
EDIT: Oh and I saw that Tom Cotton held up the nomination of Avril Haines temporarily until she answered a question to his satisfaction. When I first read the story on CNN it was difficult to even figure out exactly what the full context was, seeming odd that Tom Cotton (a relatively junior Senator) would be talking about investigations around CIA waterboarding from the 00s. Then I realized that the entire media was, in the most poker-faced way possible, essentially saying that Cotton forced her to commit to not pursuing criminal investigations of the obviously illegal act of torturing, trying to make Cotton look like the good guy for the sake of incoming Avril Haines who had just given him the thumbs up.
Waterboarding/Guantanamo/etc was never really my big schtick to begin with so it's not like I'm personally outraged, but it shows first and foremost that the priority is always in the state protecting its own, and secondly how shallow Biden's commitment to any real progressive causes will be. But hey there's a deadly virus and an insurrection going on, we can't afford to wait.
Anyone thinking these next four years are going to be boring is crazy.I dunno, more like a 45 at most. I've never thought Trump was particularly honest except in the "He blurts out whatever he's thinking at the moment" kind of way, but I didn't expect him to so blatantly shit on his own MAGAtards regarding draining the swamp. Based on what I know of Lil Wayne's pardon I actually support it, and I get the pandering intent to it, but pardoning a bunch of ultra-millionaire fraud scumbags and an ultra-corrupt Democratic mayor over any number of other candidates is just insult to injury.
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CiG
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HamburgerBoy
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Yeah, over the privately-funded wall scheme. When the charges first dropped I gave Bannon the benefit of the doubt that some money was moved illegally on a technicality, but Bannon's own response looked sus as fuck, and ultimately if true, it means Trump pardoned Bannon for selling a fraudulent private border wall scheme to Trump supporters who were tired of waiting for Trump's vaporware public border wall scheme. Makes it sound almost like Trump might bring him back into the fold for 2024. Or maybe Bannon just has dirt on Trump.
CiG
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HamburgerBoy
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An unquestionably good aspect to Trump leaving office: no more "trust the plan" Alex Jones.
https://twitter.com/RichardHanania/status/1352131009983115266
https://twitter.com/RichardHanania/status/1352131009983115266
CiG
Approximately Infinite Universe
Allfader
Kvelding
I told ya. Those mofos are against everything and everyone. They are extremists and as such, they will alienate themselves and try to drag most people as possible into their fold, like religious zealots has done before.
US must crush them before they become too powerful. Hitler rose to power in a similar way; it was seen as a clown with crazy supporters until his speech reached enough people to make himself the ruler of Germany.
