The obsession with Music

[speed]

Today, it seems every young kid 12-20 lives for music. Music is their passion, their meaning to life; it dictates which friends they will have, which girlfriends or boyfriends they will date, how they will dress, how they will dance even. Music, especially hip hop, rock, and heavy metal, promotes sex, violence, and occultist behavior (ok, I think this is funny) to these same impressionable passionate masses. Yet at the same time, music is largely disregarded by the adult world and its institutions and by philosophy. Plato obviously thought music was powerful enough he devoted part of the Republic to controlling it; Aristotle goes on in the Politics about music and instruments and even proper rhymes, and Nietszche gives it strong mention. Thus, does perhaps music--and the bad pop, rap and hard rock that permeates the airways too--have too much of an affect on young people to the detriment of their development? Is music (not Bach or hell even Opeth or Isis) perhaps as dangerous as Plato thought?

 

[Keltoi]

There can be little doubt that music is shaping the development of modern youth. I think music always has to some extent or another, but the problem with today's music, most notably rap and hip-hop, is that it damages social and mental development for some of the more impressionable young people. I'm not simply picking on hip-hop or "black" music, because metal can have this same effect on some, but I believe hip-hop has had the most impact in recent years because of its popularity and message. I believe music can damage social and mental development, and I'm sure the statistics are there to prove it. I'm not sure what the solution is, but there is obviously a problem.

 

[speed]

There can be little doubt that music is shaping the development of modern youth. I think music always has to some extent or another, but the problem with today's music, most notably rap and hip-hop, is that it damages social and mental development for some of the more impressionable young people. I'm not simply picking on hip-hop or "black" music, because metal can have this same effect on some, but I believe hip-hop has had the most impact in recent years because of its popularity and message. I believe music can damage social and mental development, and I'm sure the statistics are there to prove it. I'm not sure what the solution is, but there is obviously a problem.

Surf these boards, and its easy to find examples of metal having a detrimental effect. Some of these kids really join cults, or become so obsessed with a band or a genre, they act like stark raving mad lunatics.

 

[Keltoi]

This is true, but I also find that the majority of "metalheads" simply love the sound of guitar and drums. I'm sure the majority of hip-hop fans simply like bass and rhymes, but I also think that hip-hop endorses more anti-social and destructive behavior than metal. That sounds strange I know if you look at some metal lyrics, but I see metal lyrics almost like you're reading a comic book or something, I don't take it seriously. Those who have embraced the "gangsta" mindset, which there are millions, take rap lyrics very seriously and act out accordingly.

 

[War_Blade]

I feel that metalheads have more of a passion and love for their music then any other genre. I am not even going to deny that i live for metal. Without it i would be lost.

 

[Keltoi]

I'm not familiar with Aristotle's thoughts on music and its place in society, but I know that Aristotle believed in a highly structured society. I'm sure if he could imagine music having the effect that it has in our society he would promote some form of censorship.

 

[Europa Ascendent]

Today, it seems every young kid 12-20 lives for music. Music is their passion, their meaning to life; it dictates which friends they will have, which girlfriends or boyfriends they will date, how they will dress, how they will dance even. Music, especially hip hop, rock, and heavy metal, promotes sex, violence, and occultist behavior (ok, I think this is funny) to these same impressionable passionate masses. Yet at the same time, music is largely disregarded by the adult world and its institutions and by philosophy. Plato obviously thought music was powerful enough he devoted part of the Republic to controlling it; Aristotle goes on in the Politics about music and instruments and even proper rhymes, and Nietszche gives it strong mention. Thus, does perhaps music--and the bad pop, rap and hard rock that permeates the airways too--have too much of an affect on young people to the detriment of their development? Is music (not Bach or hell even Opeth or Isis) perhaps as dangerous as Plato thought?

I see someone just a picked up a copy of The Closing of the American Mind...

 

[Silver Incubus]

Music is essential neutral. It really isn't until a message is behind the music that creates the problem. Just like a radical preacher can warp the impressionalble minds, if the youth feels like in some way that the artist represents a part of themself in which they can identify strongly then the hook of the music can dig deeply into their lives wreaking havoc.

That's why when kids hear that I dislike the band Slipknot and ask why, I say its because the lyrics are crafted(much the same way linkin park is) to exploit the angst and alienation of the youth in order to sell records. Clever, but certainly not respectble for a true artist.

Ignorant and simple rap artists do reflect the life they may live, but they should never go out to glorify it. Of course sex, booze, and violence sells, it is apparent in the movies and television that is put out there, so is it any wonder why rap is popular?

 

[infoterror]

Today, it seems every young kid 12-20 lives for music. Music is their passion, their meaning to life; it dictates which friends they will have, which girlfriends or boyfriends they will date, how they will dress, how they will dance even.

Mass media + home stereos = a perfect product, especially with the cluelessness inherent to being young.

 

[speed]

I see someone just a picked up a copy of The Closing of the American Mind...

Yeah, I havent had much time to do any pondering of bigger issues in a while. And I do like to start interesting threads. I read it more than a month ago, but this subject somehow stayed in my mind.

 

[Mitton]

Music makes a big impact on peoples lives and I agree it can dictate the way certain individuals live.In some instances people often take things to far Andrea Volpe for example who Killed several members of his band in a Satanic Ritual, which was thought to be because he listened to Heavy Metal music.
I can even remember one of my friends a long time ago trying out smoking because he saw Slash from Guns 'N' Roses doing it,and now he is a full time smoker.

 

[unknown]

Today, it seems every young kid 12-20 lives for music. Music is their passion, their meaning to life; it dictates which friends they will have, which girlfriends or boyfriends they will date, how they will dress, how they will dance even. Music, especially hip hop, rock, and heavy metal, promotes sex, violence, and occultist behavior (ok, I think this is funny) to these same impressionable passionate masses.

this is just from a personal perspective. My first band I REALLY got into was The Mighty Mighty Bosstones...I wanted to be them so badly. They were big into plaid, so I started wearing plaid. I started listening to what they listened to. Of course at the time, I was only 12-14. On a large scale, this may be correct. My personal music tastes these days lay largely in the domains of metal, jazz, classical and ambient. This also reflects in my guitar and bass playing. I'll start off playing Death, switch to Wes Montgomery, grab my bass and start playing some funk lines. I don't exactly dress or act like the stereotypical metalhead. I own only a few band shirts. My wardrobe is mainly plain t shirts and blue jeans. Only one or two of my friends listens to the same music as I do, and the last girlfriend I dated (for 2 years) was heavily into show tunes and oldies.

But as I said, I don't doubt that it's true for the majority of music listeners. It's just one more way for people to segregate themselves into a comfortable niche. I do believe Aristotle and Plato are right in realizing the power of music. That's why it's always cool when bands like Rage Against the Machine get into the mainstream and do whatever they can and challenge the status quo. But unfortunately, most of it is just this mind numbing one-hit wonder nonsense.

 

[Norsemaiden]

Apologies in advance for the following rant

I don't know if its as obvious in the US as it is in the UK, but the rap/hip hop , which seems to have been around unchanged for about 20 years, is really promoted as being trendy in the media. Meanwhile, metal is held at arms' length and allocated very little radio time - disproportionately small compared with its popularity. Classical music is also conspicuously pushed to the sidelines - while jazz tends to recieve attention.

All of this is political. If you can get white kids admiring the worst kind of blacks and wishing they were them - copying "gangsta" behaviour, gestures,walk and carribean accents - you will change the culture. For certain reasons that's what those who run our society are encouraging.

It's not purely market driven. They wanted metal to go away, but it didn't. So they were forced to see what could be done to hype their approved (often manufactured) bands and their preferred image. Some kinds of metal are threatening to the system: those that have complex melodies comparable to classical music - as opposed to integrating rap influences; those that promote paganism - as opposed to satanism; those that encourage fierceness and bravery - as opposed to sickness, depravity and decadence. I wish anyone who plays in a band would consider this when they compose music - so long as they don't take the prescribed route to commercial success!

To use a historical example. The system likes Motley Crue much better than Metallica. Metallica only got famous because their popularity couldn't be ignored, yet they have been very under-represented by the media, considering they sold 13 million copies of "Metallica" , 3 million more than Madonna's best selling album "Like a Virgin".

 

[Horus]

Oh my god, Norsemaiden, you're absolutely right.

 

[speed]

Oh my god, Norsemaiden, you're absolutely right.

Isnt she wonderful?

Very interesting. I think this could be a seperate thread actually.

Jazz doesnt receive much attention in the States.

 

[unknown]

In Los Angeles, we have two classical radio stations and a pretty big Jazz station. But then again, Los Angeles has always been something of an anomaly

 

[Norsemaiden]

Oh my god, Norsemaiden, you're absolutely right.

So I'm not the only person who thinks this? That's good to know!

 

[Horus]

Well, looking at the music industry from the point of view of a musician who enjoys writing music of one of the most esoteric, as well as unpopular, genres of Metal, let alone Rock as a whole, how could I not agree with you?

And in case you're wondering what genre of Metal I'm talking about, click the link in my sig. If you're too lazy to do that, then I'll just tell you that I'm talking about Operatic Progressive Power Metal.

 

[Norsemaiden]

Well, looking at the music industry from the point of view of a musician who enjoys writing music of one of the most esoteric, as well as unpopular, genres of Metal, let alone Rock as a whole, how could I not agree with you?

And in case you're wondering what genre of Metal I'm talking about, click the link in my sig. If you're too lazy to do that, then I'll just tell you that I'm talking about Operatic Progressive Power Metal.

I was just listening to your band earlier to remind myself what you sound like. Very good - and promising. Speed suggested I start another thread regarding the point I made so that's what I'm doing.

 

[Horus]

Thanks. We're actually working on more stuff yet to come with more of a faster crazier Neo-Classical Power Metal edge to it: exactly what MTV doesn't want people to hear. But I don't care who else I satisfy, as long as I satisfy myself.