The obsession with Music

[speed]

Thanks. We're actually working on more stuff yet to come with more of a faster crazier Neo-Classical Power Metal edge to it: exactly what MTV doesn't want people to hear. But I don't care who else I satisfy, as long as I satisfy myself.

Thats the thinking. Its for love of the music; but soon, as you get older, you may become despondent about the whole industry, and quit playing. I dont really care for neo-classical power metal, but I respect the talent needed to craft it. You dont have some high pitched shrieker as a singer do you? Please say you dont!

 

[Europa Ascendent]

Yeah, I havent had much time to do any pondering of bigger issues in a while. And I do like to start interesting threads. I read it more than a month ago, but this subject somehow stayed in my mind.

You seem like a reasonably intelligent fellow, I'm surprised you'd be impressed with an analysis as vapid as Bloom's. He should have just called the chapter, "Kids these days..."

 

[Vital Remains]

it seems to me alot of metalheads are dedicated to their music more that people who listen to other genres. haha if a guy who likes rap or country music explains his likings to a guy who like metal the metal guy is always like "Fuck that shit man, you need to listen to real music." im kindove that way myself.

 

[entanglement]

All of this is political. If you can get white kids admiring the worst kind of blacks and wishing they were them - copying "gangsta" behaviour, gestures,walk and carribean accents - you will change the culture. For certain reasons that's what those who run our society are encouraging.

Can you please explain how the 'system' or the political entities are involved in this? I mean, radio stations would play and stores would sell what the majority taste is, right? Arent the people themselves responsible for what musical taste they posess?

 

[Horus]

Thats the thinking. Its for love of the music; but soon, as you get older, you may become despondent about the whole industry, and quit playing. I dont really care for neo-classical power metal, but I respect the talent needed to craft it. You dont have some high pitched shrieker as a singer do you? Please say you dont!

No, we have a grunter. really, he has a god voice, but it's just that his singing range is about just above Ben Stein's.

it seems to me alot of metalheads are dedicated to their music more that people who listen to other genres. haha if a guy who likes rap or country music explains his likings to a guy who like metal the metal guy is always like "Fuck that shit man, you need to listen to real music." im kindove that way myself.

You're not alone.

Can you please explain how the 'system' or the political entities are involved in this? I mean, radio stations would play and stores would sell what the majority taste is, right? Arent the people themselves responsible for what musical taste they posess?

You must wonder to yourself though, what influences the majority's tastes? Media. What influences the Media? The government.

 

[Vital Remains]

You must wonder to yourself though, what influences the majority's tastes? Media. What influences the Media? The government.

is that paranoia? lol. jk

 

[entanglement]

You must wonder to yourself though, what influences the majority's tastes? Media. What influences the Media? The government.

How? Doesnt 'musical taste' influence media? They'd wanna sell what people like, right?

 

[The.Donut]

How? Doesnt 'musical taste' influence media? They'd wanna sell what people like, right?

I agree. I believe that these people sell what they perceive the majority would like. So then, it comes back to people being the one's with the power to influence. The government, as I see it (at least in the UK), has less control over the media than people seem to think.

 

[derek]

The impressionable will always be influenced, music is but one avenue for that.

Also, the musical tastes of said kids is often related to a plethora of things extrinsic to the actual music, for example; image, connotations and the desire to be associated with these things is often just a manifestation of various psychological states that all kids go through.

Also, let's not turn this into a discussion of cliched, pseudo-intellectual viewpoints about what influences the masses.

 

[Consuming Impulse]

I feel that metalheads have more of a passion and love for their music then any other genre. I am not even going to deny that i live for metal. Without it i would be lost.

this will be one of the only times that i will agree with you. metal is also the most true form in music cause all metal bands i think write music cause they want to and not cause some corprate label tells them too. metal has always been a big middle finger to society and thats one of the reason i like it.

 

[Cythraul]

How? Doesnt 'musical taste' influence media? They'd wanna sell what people like, right?

I think it tends to go both ways perhaps. The media wants to produce things that the mob likes (yes, I use the term "mob" pejoratively). But when that starts to happen you get influence in the other direction. That is, certain artists and certain art forms don't get exposure. The kids watch the television and they think the stuff is cool. It influences them to an extent. They don't see the other stuff, and at any rate the other stuff isn't portrayed as the stuff that's cool or that people like. No big deal though, in my estimation. The people who crave something different will go look for it.

But I do think that the public tends to influence the directions of the media more than the other way around.

 

[ARC150]

Today, it seems every young kid 12-20 lives for music...at the same time, music is largely disregarded by the adult world and its institutions and by philosophy...does perhaps music...have too much of an affect on young people to the detriment of their development?

There is something to be said here for music and for 12-20 year olds (to wit: adolescents).

Music itself is often remarked upon and seen as a distinct form of cognitive process - that is, it is often regarded as distinct from other thought-processes - native to itself. Most remarkably, Gardner recognizes Musical intelligence as a distinct facet of (only) seven realms of intelligence. It is a mode of understanding that seems to defy the constraints of typical thought (e.g. logic) - even the word "Music" is derived from the Grecian "Muse:" something inspired by heavenly process (and as such, separated from the typical, mortal constraints of thought).

To my mind, in humans, there is thought and there is emotion - and the one can not rightly discern the other. Music appeals to our emotive side - it affects us in a way that can not be reasoned in the way that ideas can. This renders a medium that is both powerful and ellusive.

Now, combine that with adolescence. Maslow notes members of this age group as those looking to esteem the self. Piaget recognizes this same age-group as comprising those in the throes of forming their own foundational ideologies and bases for world/life - view.

This confluence renders music as a powerful and, IMHO, necessary component of anyone's phenomenological journey.

 

[speed]

There is something to be said here for music and for 12-20 year olds (to wit: adolescents).

Music itself is often remarked upon and seen as a distinct form of cognitive process - that is, it is often regarded as distinct from other thought-processes - native to itself. Most remarkably, Gardner recognizes Musical intelligence as a distinct facet of (only) seven realms of intelligence. It is a mode of understanding that seems to defy the constraints of typical thought (e.g. logic) - even the word "Music" is derived from the Grecian "Muse:" something inspired by heavenly process (and as such, separated from the typical, mortal constraints of thought).

To my mind, in humans, there is thought and there is emotion - and the one can not rightly discern the other. Music appeals to our emotive side - it affects us in a way that can not be reasoned in the way that ideas can. This renders a medium that is both powerful and ellusive.

Now, combine that with adolescence. Maslow notes members of this age group as those looking to esteem the self. Piaget recognizes this same age-group as comprising those in the throes of forming their own foundational ideologies and bases for world/life - view.

This confluence renders music as a powerful and, IMHO, necessary component of anyone's phenomenological journey.

Excellent post. You've covered everything here. I honestly think you may be correct. It is the irrationality and emotive passion of music that makes it so attractive to adolescents. Perhaps outside of sex, religion, and drugs, it alone allows adolescents a otherworldy, or out of self, experience. Plus, as you say, it provides self-esteem and reaffirmation of ones foundational ideology (which may change a few times in ones adolescence as well). You know, following this logic, one could make an obvious correlation between music and spirituality. Does anyone else notice, that music has always been a part of religion, and in primitive religions, it is of central importance.

I would contend really really good music also inspires thought; yet I suppose that's not the kind of music we're talking about here.

 

[Horus]

How? Doesnt 'musical taste' influence media? They'd wanna sell what people like, right?

Yeah, musical taste does influence the media, but if the media wants to sell what they like, what better way to do it than shoving it down peoples' throats? Seriously. If people weren't spending every minute of their lives watching people get their rides pimped, or watching tv shows about how cool celebrities are because they're rich anorexics who don't know how to do anything other than party, do you think people would want to be like that if the media wasn't constantly saying "These people are cool."? If they weren't doing that, than too many people would like too different things and they wouldn't be able to sell their stuff to as many people. So they get everybody to like one thing, and they sell that one thing to everybody.

 

[Demilich]

I find it interesting that people think of "the government" and "the media" as monolithic entities with singular motives and the ability to move towards their goals in a productive and organized manner. More likely, I believe, is that these institutions are made up of a bunch of squabbling, money/powerhungry individuals attempting to assert a variety of personal goals.

 

[Norsemaiden]

I find it interesting that people think of "the government" and "the media" as monolithic entities with singular motives and the ability to move towards their goals in a productive and organized manner. More likely, I believe, is that these institutions are made up of a bunch of squabbling, money/powerhungry individuals attempting to assert a variety of personal goals.

That's what they want you to think. If it was really as you describe, a power vacuum would exist for a strong organised group with an agenda to take advantage of. But that vacancy has been filled. (Now this is getting off topic.) Check out Bilderberg for example - they really exist, but the reason for their secrecy is debateable. However they represent an organisation of powerful and influential people working very much together.

 

[Justin S.]

That's what they want you to think. If it was really as you describe, a power vacuum would exist for a strong organised group with an agenda to take advantage of. But that vacancy has been filled. (Now this is getting off topic.) Check out Bilderberg for example - they really exist, but the reason for their secrecy is debateable. However they represent an organisation of powerful and influential people working very much together.

Right, and thats why things always turn out as they plan, eh?

No, Demilich's understanding is more robust, and takes into account the unpredictabiliy and mammoth complexity of reality. Certainly, Norsemaiden, there are groups with interests that are powerful, no ones denies this. But they are but a small fraction of the puzzle and are subject to the same power structures and acculturation as the rest. There is no puppetmaster "outside" the system.

 

[Norsemaiden]

The people passively accept that the government is working for them and/or that the govenment is a law-making body that tells them what to do, but is still prioritsing running the country in an efficient way - but such people, either through fear or apathy, have not closely observed the actions of the government and the fact that consistently things are not done in the national interest, let alone to serve the people, and that there is a different guiding influence upon the helm of the ship of state.

The system where you have two main parties, one in power and the other in opposition gives the impression of squabbling - but really they are both singing from the same songsheet. The fact that each party keeps the same civil servants rather than replacing many or all of them when a new party is elected shows a broad continuation. The fact that commercial interests, large corporations and monopolies use their financial power to effect and affect policies is often easy to see.

The people who are chosen as candidates have to be approved higher up and are not chosen at random. It is openly said in political circles that politicians with any ideals or principles (a rare breed) can forget about applying them in their career if they want to get anywhere. Politicians are different from normal people, they generally have lying, psychopathic personalities and are unprincipled.

 

[Demilich]

and takes into account the unpredictabiliy and mammoth complexity of reality.

This is what I find profoundly lacking in the majority of Norsemaiden's posts. Once again, this is not meant to be an attack in any way. Perhaps, instead, it should function as an eye-opener. The rhetorical vacuum in which many of your (Norsemaiden's) arguments are allowed to flourish does not reflect the reality of day to day life.

 

[Justin S.]

The people passively accept that the government is working for them and/or that the govenment is a law-making body that tells them what to do, but is still prioritsing running the country in an efficient way - but such people, either through fear or apathy, have not closely observed the actions of the government and the fact that consistently things are not done in the national interest, let alone to serve the people, and that there is a different guiding influence upon the helm of the ship of state.

Agreed, but these influences and forces are not monolithic/singular. This is what Demilich and I are critical of- attributing too much to simple mechanisms in a reductionist fashion.

The system where you have two main parties, one in power and the other in opposition gives the impression of squabbling - but really they are both singing from the same songsheet. The fact that each party keeps the same civil servants rather than replacing many or all of them when a new party is elected shows a broad continuation. The fact that commercial interests, large corporations and monopolies use their financial power to effect and affect policies is often easy to see.

Again, I agree to a large extent with the general premises here.

The people who are chosen as candidates have to be approved higher up and are not chosen at random. It is openly said in political circles that politicians with any ideals or principles (a rare breed) can forget about applying them in their career if they want to get anywhere. Politicians are different from normal people, they generally have lying, psychopathic personalities and are unprincipled.

I agree, until the last line. I dont think politicians operate in a fundamentally different way than others; they have a different context and realm to project their will. The farmer and plant worker are often just as manipulative and despotic within their arena as the politician is within his.