The obsession with Music

[Thoth-Amon]

It's still exceedingly trite and untrue.

Well it isn't entirely accurate but it's still a classic.

 

[no country for old wainds]

Ive heard "mo' money mo' problems" but thats it.

You are the sole reason I still read this board.

 

[Horus]

It's from the bible. And it's "the LOVE of money is the root of all kinds of evil".

Close enough. It still supports my argument.

 

[Mormagil]

Call me crazy but that sounds like circular reasoning.

 

[Horus]

Care to elaborate?

 

[Mormagil]

You're using the statement "the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil" to support your own statement, which is roughly the same. That's circular reasoning. And even if it wasn't, there's still the problem of using a proverb as a premise for your argument.

 

[Demilich]

Seriously, Ptah, we should all be above using random biblical statements as an (apparently) last-ditch attempt to cling to an argument that isn't holding water.

 

[Horus]

I actually didn't know it was from the Bible. And it wasn't a last-ditch. It was a way of simplifying what I was saying. Big difference.

 

[MURAI]

Today, it seems every young kid 12-20 lives for music. Music is their passion, their meaning to life; it dictates which friends they will have, which girlfriends or boyfriends they will date, how they will dress, how they will dance even. Music, especially hip hop, rock, and heavy metal, promotes sex, violence, and occultist behavior (ok, I think this is funny) to these same impressionable passionate masses. Yet at the same time, music is largely disregarded by the adult world and its institutions and by philosophy. Plato obviously thought music was powerful enough he devoted part of the Republic to controlling it; Aristotle goes on in the Politics about music and instruments and even proper rhymes, and Nietszche gives it strong mention. Thus, does perhaps music--and the bad pop, rap and hard rock that permeates the airways too--have too much of an affect on young people to the detriment of their development? Is music (not Bach or hell even Opeth or Isis) perhaps as dangerous as Plato thought?

Music is pushed so strongly in the mass media because it is so accessible and it has a strong image. Like you said, we all know how easy it is to market that hip, party hard attitude to young people.

I do not think mass media music has much of a serious influence on young people other than being some one hit wonder or some socializing event. Most do not even take music that seriously in the first place other than those who get to the point of digging into joining subculture like heavy metal.

And didn't Nietzsche make music himself?

 

[The Bringer]

Like you said, we all know how easy it is to market that hip, party hard attitude to young people.

That is what America strives on. When I moved away from Canada I found a whole country of people who are very humble and do know anything of living life as one giant party. I see people who feel passionately for their music and don't take it for granted.

I think the "Mass Media" takes (and uses) music to control these little groups, sell what they want to be hip to them and drive for their own personal greed.

The people I see falling for those motions are the people who's Myspace profiles I watch and they say "I enjoy a little bit of everything". Well, a little bit of everything they see on Much Music or MTV.

And what do you make of this... I actually saw a profile of some girl that said: "Don't be a cheap ass and save all your money! Come and have a good time with us because in the end you'll regret it."

 

[Horus]

Care to send me her URL so I can see it and nag it to Oblivion?

 

[The Bringer]

I would love to... but I didn't bother to save it. I'll try re-tracing my steps.

 

[Øjeblikket]

Ive heard "mo' money mo' problems" but thats it.

Liar!.

 

[Øjeblikket]

To my mind, in humans, there is thought and there is emotion - and the one can not rightly discern the other.

I disagree with the latter on behalf of all things feminine. This is not to say irrationality governs the intuitive... prowess. Rather, it's delicious.

 

[Norsemaiden]

Music sales to teenagers are down on what they were a couple of decades ago, and it's not only because of downloads. This is supposed to be because of increasing numbers of kids who are not into music and heavily into playing computer games. Black kids are much more into music scenes than white kids are - I mention this to partly explain why the music prefered by Blacks dominates the charts.

 

[frostwork]

Most people aren't capable of discriminating in favour of music that induces higher cognitive activity. I believe the main factor in music preferences is personality type. Most people are pragmatic and utilitarian in what interests them. They don't spend a great deal of time analyzing for quality. Music helps young people identify themselves with a certain 'group'. Naturally kids who want to be popular, identify with music that is popular. This is why once a trend becomes established it will gather momentum with alarming speed, like a positive feedback loop. According to sociobiological interpretations, music, like all forms of human communication, has an aspect of manipulation. Music can be thought of as employing psychological tactics in rather the same way as advertisements--not to inform but to persuade. The extent to which people are manipulated is debateable. It seems, however, to me that some music is more explicitly manipulative. Contemporary popular music, for instance, employs repetitive auditory rhythms that bore insidiously into the mind of the listener. People usually describe this as "catchy", or something that "they can't get out of their heads"; IMO It has almost the same effects as hypnotism in that it irresistibly prompts future behavior in the listener. Perhaps this isn't always as sinister as i'm making it sound here. All communication has these elements of manipulation, but in day to day life we rarely look at it so cynically. Usually there is a degree of willingness on the part of the receiver, and so-called manipulation actually serves as mutually benefitial to all parties involved. So why is it then that people 'resist' what is popular? What makes a person 'go against the grain' (explicitly so in the case of metal). My theory is it has something to do with integrity. We all know that once music becomes popular it compromises whatever credibility it may of had as a medium of art. The 'lowest common denominator' appeals usually to the most base, especially sensual elements of our humanity since this has the broadest appeal. Popular music is unintelligent, boring and superficial to those of us who demand meaningful or contextual musical communication. Put simply, people who preference more esoteric genres of music (ie, metal, classical, prog rock) do not 'buy' something for its popularity or its immediate sound, but for its substance as 'a work of art'. When such people coinhabit a superficial music culture (ie mass-marketable pop culture), they will seek out ever more 'extreme' music, further compromising what is immediately appealing (sensuality) for what is less obviously appealing (cookie-monster death vocals for instance).

This ties back to personality type, since only those with innately inquisitive and pensive tendencies are capable of discerning the significance of abstraction in music.

 

[Horus]

Beautiful first post, Frostwork. Welcome to UMF.

 

[infoterror]

Michel Houllebecq addresses this in "The Elementary Particles": music came about in the 1950s with stereo units and became the approved method by which children became sexualized.

 

[speed]

Most people aren't capable of discriminating in favour of music that induces higher cognitive activity. I believe the main factor in music preferences is personality type. Most people are pragmatic and utilitarian in what interests them. They don't spend a great deal of time analyzing for quality. Music helps young people identify themselves with a certain 'group'. Naturally kids who want to be popular, identify with music that is popular. This is why once a trend becomes established it will gather momentum with alarming speed, like a positive feedback loop. According to sociobiological interpretations, music, like all forms of human communication, has an aspect of manipulation. Music can be thought of as employing psychological tactics in rather the same way as advertisements--not to inform but to persuade. The extent to which people are manipulated is debateable. It seems, however, to me that some music is more explicitly manipulative. Contemporary popular music, for instance, employs repetitive auditory rhythms that bore insidiously into the mind of the listener. People usually describe this as "catchy", or something that "they can't get out of their heads"; IMO It has almost the same effects as hypnotism in that it irresistibly prompts future behavior in the listener. Perhaps this isn't always as sinister as i'm making it sound here. All communication has these elements of manipulation, but in day to day life we rarely look at it so cynically. Usually there is a degree of willingness on the part of the receiver, and so-called manipulation actually serves as mutually benefitial to all parties involved. So why is it then that people 'resist' what is popular? What makes a person 'go against the grain' (explicitly so in the case of metal). My theory is it has something to do with integrity. We all know that once music becomes popular it compromises whatever credibility it may of had as a medium of art. The 'lowest common denominator' appeals usually to the most base, especially sensual elements of our humanity since this has the broadest appeal. Popular music is unintelligent, boring and superficial to those of us who demand meaningful or contextual musical communication. Put simply, people who preference more esoteric genres of music (ie, metal, classical, prog rock) do not 'buy' something for its popularity or its immediate sound, but for its substance as 'a work of art'. When such people coinhabit a superficial music culture (ie mass-marketable pop culture), they will seek out ever more 'extreme' music, further compromising what is immediately appealing (sensuality) for what is less obviously appealing (cookie-monster death vocals for instance).

This ties back to personality type, since only those with innately inquisitive and pensive tendencies are capable of discerning the significance of abstraction in music.

Excellent post. I hope you post here often in the future.

However, I do think some people have a natural talent for music, art, math, enginnering, etc., and will seek out more esoteric substantive works in whatever field they have talent in. Thus, in general I agree, one needs the proper personality--or better yet, they must develop their own personality, not one created for them, or one they conform to. This fact appears lost to most people, as they'd rather act like everyone else and fit in, than develop their true potential. Most on this board however have developed their own unique personalites; hence, I hope you stick around.