The ONLY question

[Obyeybyeogone]

I very much care about stuff like this, it's very interesting to think about. Try thinking of nothing, I don't mean clearing your mind, I mean imagine our entire reality doesn't exist, your thoughts will hit a wall and you lose the train of thought. This question will probably forever remain unanswerable, the answer is probably beyond humans' ability to understand, if there is an answer at all.

 

[Satori]

Originally posted by Oyo
I very much care about stuff like this, it's very interesting to think about. Try thinking of nothing, I don't mean clearing your mind, I mean imagine our entire reality doesn't exist, your thoughts will hit a wall and you lose the train of thought. This question will probably forever remain unanswerable, the answer is probably beyond humans' ability to understand, if there is an answer at all.

I know exactly what you mean and I can totally relate, weird as it is.

Satori

 

[Siren]

Originally posted by Satori
It is commonly regarded that in the formation of our universe it was not something coming out of nothing, but somethingness and nothingness coming into being at the same time like a matter/anti-matter explosion or something.

This makes my simple mind think that nothing is actually something.. But then how would you call the nothing that was before the explosion that led to something+nothing?

 

[Satori]

Originally posted by Siren
This makes my simple mind think that nothing is actually something..

I think that is the case. There's a very old metaphysics zen buddhist saying that goes:
"Form is emptiness, emptiness is form."

Which basically means that something and nothing are the same thing, or perhaps more accurately in the context of the dualism of zen, 2 aspects of single underlying phenomenon.

But then how would you call the nothing that was before the explosion that led to something+nothing?

Exactly! I don't know what to call it (maybe anti-nothing?) but I personally like to think of this pre-universe state as a number:

-0 (negative zero).

Fuck I'm confused, which I suppose was the whole point of this thread, heheh,

Satori

 

[Xtokalon]

One other post before I go to dinner.

The question, "Why is there something rather than nothing?" in my mind is something of a twin to the question "why must thought be about anything?"-- why is it characterized by an "of-ness"? etc.. I'm still working on it...

 

[D Mullholand]

"Why is there something rather than nothing?"

One of those questions that are nice to be kept perpetually on the horizon, as a sort-of lamp or star, to help you find answers to other, less abstract questions on the way. Conceptualization is fun, but when you get to extremes like "nothing" and "something", there's not much room left for thoughts or answers, other than in form of a word-game; or you can go sideways, making a gradual transfer to other similar questions (useful to put more lamps on other horizons) without getting specific again, but also without further abstraction (which is hardly possible from that point). Otherwise - the answer is "Look elsewhere".

D Mullholand

 

[Siren]

Originally posted by Satori
I don't know what to call it (maybe anti-nothing?) but I personally like to think of this pre-universe state as a number:

-0 (negative zero).

As someone has said, it's not logicaly correct to talk about what was before universe, or more accurately what was before time started counting, just because there wasn't (don't want to use the word nothing )

But I still don't accept easily the fact that nothing as opposite of something is actually something, it is supposed to not exist, but then it does, FUCK I'm confused too!

Edit: I think this was my 200th post.. I have to get back to life...

 

[luke]

To answer two of the questions on this thread (probably to no great level of satisfaction, nevertheless here goes):
If you consider the "multiverse theory" presented to us by some physicists, all possible outcomes to all possible circumstances occur in an infinite number of universes.
According to some theories, this temporal universe came from an anomaly called "singularity." (this is the source of the Big Bang)
So a more accurate question than "why is there something instead of nothing" would be, "what caused the change in the singularity that created our universe?" The multiverse theory shows us that because it was a possible outcome, it occured. Conversely, there are universes that didn't come into existence because it is also a possibility that the singularity experienced no change, thus nothing was created.

The real breakdown occurs when you question "what is the singularity?" or "where did the singularity come from?"
maybe we'll have to ask Stephen Hawking to join the board and explain a few things for us...

 

[Satori]

Originally posted by Xtokalon
The question, "Why is there something rather than nothing?" in my mind is something of a twin to the question "why must thought be about anything?"-- why is it characterized by an "of-ness"? etc..

Thought must be about something because the subject (mind) must have have object (something) in order to create the subject/object duality that is the basis of awareness (thought).

Satori

 

[Satori]

Originally posted by luke
The real breakdown occurs when you question "what is the singularity?" or "where did the singularity come from?"

I feel it is the same question. Why did the singularity come into being?

Whatever question confuses you the most is the right one for you!! hehehe

maybe we'll have to ask Stephen Hawking to join the board and explain a few things for us...

Even he has no real answer for this, only math-based models which can neither be proven or disproven because it is impossible to know anything that occured "before" (if you'll excuse the linear time reference) the singularity came into being.

Satori

 

[Ethereal Sage]

Well, it has already been said that we are aware, and you have to be aware of something, so the fact that we are aware leads to the fact that there is something rather than nothing.

 

[Jayde]

I just think that there's no way to know what's out there. So why should we concern ourselves with an unanswerable question?

 

[YaYo]

Yes, the question that made me realise anything is possible, no matter how rediculous it sounds. Including Religion and Ghosts and OBEs, etc, etc.

Just as hard for me to comprehend is how science currently tells us there is more than 1 thing. (eg Gravitational Force and Magnetic Force, etc).. why? It seems far more logical if everything was made from only 1 thing. Which is what i tend to believe.. on the smallest scale i think we are all just energy, but what is energy? But whatever the case when you get to the smallest building blocks of existance, then what are they made of? nothing? seems the most logical answer to me. So i think the eventual goal of science (not that well ever be able to get there) is to realise we dont exist, we are made from nothing. (ok that was just a little thought process, and not what i really believe, just an option).

Anyway if our universe exists, then its obviously possible for another universe to exist with completely different forces/matter/whatever. right? Could they exist in the same space? If not where would they exist? Is there some place we can never get to even if (although impossible?) we visit every inch of our space? (Is our space part of our universe, or is our universe part of space?). Can you comprehend that? Maybe the Gods and spirits and whatever are from another existance... would explain a lot, but would also mean the Gods probably has just as little idea about how they exist as we do.

I think our 'empty space' is actually something, there is a nothing that is more nothing than empty space. Because empty space exists.

My answer to the original question has always been 'because if there wasnt something then there would be nothing'.... seems stupid i guess.

 

[RETIREDTrapped]

How philosophic of you. I expect nothing less
Ill ask you this: Why do we need to care about things like that?

Is not as deep as your question but im shure you have pretty of either brilliant or stupid ideas about it and i will like to see them

...And how predictably Cliche'd of you, Misanthrope.

 

[luke]

Originally posted by YaYoGakk
Just as hard for me to comprehend is how science currently tells us there is more than 1 thing. (eg Gravitational Force and Magnetic Force, etc).. why? It seems far more logical if everything was made from only 1 thing. Which is what i tend to believe.. on the smallest scale i think we are all just energy, but what is energy? But whatever the case when you get to the smallest building blocks of existance, then what are they made of? nothing?

Many physicists are searching for a "unified theory" - one that would link gravity, electromagnetic force and the strong and weak nuclear forces. Essentially gravity alone has not been explained in terms of the other forces.
Energy and mass both behave like waves on a quantum level. Energy is energy: it's not "made" of anything.
"Nothing" means the lack of anything and everything. Perhaps you are thinking too much about the words rather than the concepts behind them.

 

[YaYo]

Energy is energy: it's not "made" of anything.
"Nothing" means the lack of anything and everything. Perhaps you are thinking too much about the words rather than the concepts behind them.

I understand that. Partly that was my point but i cant directly put my thoughts to paper. I just cant explain my thoughts without using the words 'nothing' and so on (even though i know im not using the correct meanings), so ill just have to let people not understand what im trying to say unless they happen to see it through my poor explanation.

Many physicists are searching for a "unified theory" - one that would link gravity, electromagnetic force and the strong and weak nuclear forces. Essentially gravity alone has not been explained in terms of the other forces.

Interesting, wonder what they'll come up with!