The Randy Staub love thread

[Ermz]

Since this failed on Gearslutz, I thought it might be worth a shot here.

This forum is one of the largest compendiums of knowledge on metal production, and in some ways heavier music in general. We've covered many techniques used by guys from the Sneap himself, through Colin, Jens, Fredrik, Tue, Logan, CLA etc. etc. But we've barely scratched the surface on Randy.

Arguably this guy is one of the most important engineers to our style of music, because to many of us the Black album cemented that archetypal metal drum sound. It basically created the building blocks on which most of our production techniques now lie.

In recent times it seems Randy is doing a lot more radio rock type material, and he is very very exceedingly good at it.

I'm hoping to get a collection of knowledge about his techniques down here. If you know anything at all, please share with us. From master bus tendencies, to low-end treatment, to the width of the guitars, anything at all would be helpful. I feel like there is so much to learn here, and I can't even scratch the surface because nobody knows, or is unwilling to share!

 

[MetalJonesy]

YES

the majority of my fav mixes are his, love the new AIC stuff, love reload, load and the black album, just ground breaking IMO in every sense even now!

think we discussed before his slight delays on rhythm tracks.

have you heard his remix of the some kind of monster track from st anger? fooking epic in comparison to the original, the whole album shud be remixed and produced by him, would sound killer!

 

[Ermz]

Naw I haven't. Where might I grab that, Jonesy?

Yes we discussed the delay, though I have to admit I haven't found much of a use for it. Does he use it as a matter of procedure on all rhythm tracks, or is it only as a special effect? I know on 'The Long Road' it features on the rhythms to cool effect, but I'm not so sure about 'All The Right Reasons'.

 

[slashvanyoung]

Oh man, there is so little info on his techniques around.

I remember back in 07, I went to our university's library and had a look at the recent issues of some of the recording related magazines. The back then most recent issue of "Recording Magazine" had a preview for the upcoming issue which was supposed to feature an interview with him over several pages.

So what happens? I was so submerged in getting my courses done and doing an EP at the same time, I totally forgot to pick it up the next month. When I tried to pick that magazine up over the coming, it was always unavailable.

So, what's all that noise about? I just recently found out that this very issue is available for backorder: http://www.ppvmedien.de/product_info.php/products_id/5201/cPath///recording-magazin-04/07.html

5,50 € for 4,5 pages of Staub insight... is it worth the money?

 

[Ermz]

Dooo it! then scan that shit up for us. Do you want me to paypal you the money???

 

[MetalJonesy]

Ermin, ive jst sent you a PM, lemme know when you have it!

 

[slashvanyoung]

A little bit on the recording of the drums sounds on the Black Album, probably everybody already knows about:

Apparently, the used only very little artificial reverb on the drums and tried to get most of the atmosphere from the room. They ripped all of the acoustic treatment from the walls in the live room and replaced it with wooden panels. Just a few diffusers on the ceiling.

They then used up to 50 microphones on the drums and the room which were mixed down to 25 tracks on the SSL, going to tape ofc.

Bob Rock spent 10 days to get the first mix done ("Enter Sandman"). Going from there it took Staub merely 4 hours to get the "Holier Than Thou" mix done.

 

[slashvanyoung]

Dooo it! then scan that shit up for us. Do you want me to paypal you the money???

I'll probably do it but I'd have to translate the darn thing too.

 

[MetalJonesy]

ahh we all have the year and a half in the life of video, however, im sure at some point ive heard that some sort of samples were run in with the mix, even then? cant recall where i read this from!

 

[slashvanyoung]

ahh we all have the year and a half in the life of video, however, im sure at some point ive heard that some sort of samples were run in with the mix, even then? cant recall where i read this from!

I think that info is somewhere in the depths of this forum. Was it Andy or James who said something about how they used samples back then?

 

[Pedro Teixeira]

Jonesy where can I get the remix? Really keen on hearing it as well

 

[slashvanyoung]

Can anyone confirm that rumour that he pockets the bass to the kick by hand (aligning and tuning)? I think he gets basically all of his low-end from the bass but because the pocketing is so tight, the kick doesn't sound too thin.

 

[MetalJonesy]

Sptz, dude, check ur pm

 

[MetalJonesy]

I think that info is somewhere in the depths of this forum. Was it Andy or James who said something about how they used samples back then?

yeah i have a vague recolection of them spinning the samples in, in not sure how true this is though, however regardless, youd think that 9 months in the studio they'd have done it without!

 

[James Murphy]

an album i mastered a month or two back has just come out on Burnhill Union Records.... it's a rock band called AM Conspiracy that features former Drowning Pool vocalist Jason "Gong" Jones....

anyway, the album is their self-titled debut and one track was mixed by Staub. it's track 3, "Pictures". i was asked to make it fit more with the other mixes, so what you hear is not really what i would have done had the whole album been mixed by the same person... but it's still pretty cool. what's also striking is how well the main mixer's (Chris Wisco) work stands next to Staub's.

love Randy's work though, and it was a fun job.

preview [ame="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0030AYZJY/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_2?pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B002YMVODE&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0HDFSG99MAAM878SY457"]here[/ame].

one important note... the band had Staub make changes a couple times because they thought his initial mix was light on guitars and snare too loud. i'd really like to have had the option to work with Randy'd first mix.... but themz da breakz. anyway, it's a killer record, so if you're into heavy rock with tinges of metal... check it out.

 

[C_F_H_13]

I've had randy mix one track for me personally and I've worked on 2 albums where he ended up doing the mixing. I really think he's one of the best for that modern rock sound or whatever you call it. I got a ton of info on what he does, so here's what I can remember off the top of my head. I'll dig up my notes (yes noteS) and hopefully add.

First off, randy mixes at the warehouse in studio 1 ( http://www.warehousestudio.com/index.php?target=item3,item102 ) a fair amount of the time. He has an AMAZING assistant named Zack who does all his prep work (samples/tuning/timing/layout/etc etc etc). Zack is actually an awesome engineer and producer in his own right apparently.

-While when he mixed my track it was alot more tame, I've had multiple producers tell me they were shocked at his masterbuss compression (4:1/30ms/100ms mostly I Believe). He was on average compressing anywhere from 6-12db at any point. It's so crazy, that he has to put stick clicks at the beginning of the song to get the compressor to start working so there isn't a giant suck at the beginning of the track.

-He used a Sontec EQ on the masterbuss when I was there, with boosts at 100/300/2000/12000k.

-He used Echofarm and Echoboy for Delays, and Revibe for Verbs.

-On my session, he had about 3 kick samples (including slate...however that could of been because I had included them in my own lame attempt at his hard hitting drums), and about 7 snare samples (slate as well, but then 5 or 6 random samples that sounded pretty terrible on their own, but combined sounded sweet).

-I can't really explain this properly, but he was cranking so much low end into everything. I looked at a few channels of my drum tracks, and he had cranked 100hz into the OH..(I mean cranked, full tilt), bass was cranked pretty good with a good boost at 300 too, snare/kick/gtrs everything.

-While I could have this wrong, it seemed to me that he was running a parallel drum comp off the SSL busses, but then another mono parallel comp for some or all the snares with a distressor.

-I asked him about the rumor about him using the PCM42 trick for his main rhythms and he was non commital, but I think he does. I also know that he generates a low octave guitars for the chorus using some sort of pitch shift (hardware or plugin...not sure).

that's all I can remember right now. As far as the bass/kick thing discussed earlier, I can't say whether he does or not cause the bass track I gave him was already like that, but if he does do it....it means zack does it.

 

[crazykarl]

I've had randy mix one track for me personally and I've worked on 2 albums where he ended up doing the mixing. I really think he's one of the best for that modern rock sound or whatever you call it. I got a ton of info on what he does, so here's what I can remember off the top of my head. I'll dig up my notes (yes noteS) and hopefully add.

First off, randy mixes at the warehouse in studio 1 ( http://www.warehousestudio.com/index.php?target=item3,item102 ) a fair amount of the time. He has an AMAZING assistant named Zack who does all his prep work (samples/tuning/timing/layout/etc etc etc). Zack is actually an awesome engineer and producer in his own right apparently.

-While when he mixed my track it was alot more tame, I've had multiple producers tell me they were shocked at his masterbuss compression (4:1/30ms/100ms mostly I Believe). He was on average compressing anywhere from 6-12db at any point. It's so crazy, that he has to put stick clicks at the beginning of the song to get the compressor to start working so there isn't a giant suck at the beginning of the track.

-He used a Sontec EQ on the masterbuss when I was there, with boosts at 100/300/2000/12000k.

-He used Echofarm and Echoboy for Delays, and Revibe for Verbs.

-On my session, he had about 3 kick samples (including slate...however that could of been because I had included them in my own lame attempt at his hard hitting drums), and about 7 snare samples (slate as well, but then 5 or 6 random samples that sounded pretty terrible on their own, but combined sounded sweet).

-I can't really explain this properly, but he was cranking so much low end into everything. I looked at a few channels of my drum tracks, and he had cranked 100hz into the OH..(I mean cranked, full tilt), bass was cranked pretty good with a good boost at 300 too, snare/kick/gtrs everything.

-While I could have this wrong, it seemed to me that he was running a parallel drum comp off the SSL busses, but then another mono parallel comp for some or all the snares with a distressor.

-I asked him about the rumor about him using the PCM42 trick for his main rhythms and he was non commital, but I think he does. I also know that he generates a low octave guitars for the chorus using some sort of pitch shift (hardware or plugin...not sure).

that's all I can remember right now. As far as the bass/kick thing discussed earlier, I can't say whether he does or not cause the bass track I gave him was already like that, but if he does do it....it means zack does it.

I just tried some of these tips out and...HOLY SHIT. It took a bit to harness the beast, but I definitely just got some killer results. Randy Staub and this thread may have just changed my life.

 

[JeffTD]

On my session, he had about 3 kick samples... and about 7 snare samples

Do you know if he was using each sample for a specific quality or frequency (IE one for low end, one for attack, one for midrange thump, etc...), or was it just a mass blend to be processed as a single snare or something?

 

[crillemannen]

@ C_F_H_13 cool info dude
Might i dare to ask what you paid??

Seven Samples on snare?? Hahaha i thought i was mad for using up to 4 samples haha


I must say the work he did on Black album --> Garage Days is amazing work, its probably the best work in this genre, but the nickelback mix, and that guy from American Ido (chris daughtry)l, i dont like that much, its soooo overcompressed in a way that doesn't apeal to me , but its still classy work.

 

[Soundlurker]

The cranked low end thing sounds pretty crazy... how does he deal with the excessive amounts of lowend later on?