The Recording Thread

[BrandonS]

Hey, Dan!

I've emailed you, but I think your email box is probably pretty full and you're very busy with mixing and working on your own stuff as well... or, you just didn't want to reply because I am stupid and not worth your time. It's probably true, but I still need the help.

So anyway, I've got to record rhythm guitars, leads (solos, left and right harmonic rhythms), and keyboards - also including a bit of lead square wave and such.. individual orchestral instruments like violins, flutes, cello, etc...

Let's start with the rhythm recording. Am I supposed to record the rhythms into a single track in stereo, OR into two tracks panned left and right? I've used the latter method on many recordings, and when I switch from a rhythm to a harmonic lead between two guitars, the change is extremely noticeable and I would like that to not be the case anymore. I would like to know the one right way to record rhythms and have the song flow continuously instead of having it all out of whack and shifting it's sound all the time. And when I record the two leads, I assume just play each lead and record one into 100% left track, and the other into 100% right track... If I did this how would I get it to match up to my rhythm properly when it kicks in and out of a rhythm?

Next, the keyboards! I've got a set of strings - do I record that into the center in stereo? Then additional strings into the left and right? Cello in the middle like the bass guitar, eh? Flutes, leads, stuff like that - where exactly should this sound be located in the mix, and should the rhythm strings be in the middle stereo or split left and right (like how I've been doing guitars )?

And I assume square wave should be treated like a guitar solo? Panned slightly left or right to make way for vocals, or if no vocals, located directly in the center?

Thanks! I'll appreciate serious feedback from any experienced mixer dude... and Swanö. Keep it rockin'!

 

[Tubbs]

I know that my brother recorded his guitar for his album like this:

3 inputs, all being recorded through at the same time. He did this twice for stereo.

1. A direct line from the guitar straight to a mixer
2. 1 microphone from the mixer set up a few feet away from an amp (He used Shure SM57's)
3. Another microphone from the mixer on top of the same amp

I hope this helps.

 

[Kenneth R.]

check out Andy Sneap's forum on UM Oinkness. in general, you don't want a bunch of stuff in the same space of the stereo image, so if your rhythm is 100 left/right, you dont want to put leads with the same panning or they'll overlap and get all confused up. spreading the sound across left/right is a good idea, but the degree to which you do it, for how many tracks, and where to put what, really depends on the situation and what you're trying to go for, and so any advice is pretty subjective and must be specific to your song and your style.

 

[BrandonS]

That is some great information there... First off, to Mr. McGee... may I call you Tubbs? That sounds like an overly advanced and complex way to record a guitar rhythm! I record through my guitar processor, I don't even use an amp.... And three inputs? That's an odd number... That would probably make a fairly good guitar tone there, like he does, but it's not really what I am capable of doing at all - I only have one microphone and it's for vocals.

To Kenneth R.. What you say about the stereo confusion makes a lot of sense, but the problem I have is figuring out where to actually put the left and right of the stereo for the rhythms.... There's just the option to record "stereo" and leave it at 0 Pan, or like I've been doing - the two seperated stereo channels panned at 100 left and 100 right... I don't know the proper way.. I was hoping Swano would know something about this... There's probably a certain reverb or expansion needed also to get the guitars in the perfect spot. I'll take this over to the Andy Sneap forum as well but I really hope Dan can come and shed some light on my situation. ^_^

Thanks ya'll!

 

[Tubbs]

That is some great information there... First off, to Mr. McGee... may I call you Tubbs? That sounds like an overly advanced and complex way to record a guitar rhythm! I record through my guitar processor, I don't even use an amp.... And three inputs? That's an odd number... That would probably make a fairly good guitar tone there, like he does, but it's not really what I am capable of doing at all - I only have one microphone and it's for vocals.

Hmm... well, this is how my brother recorded his guitar for his album. (A real album that was recorded, mixed and produced in a studio.) I wish I could help more, but I haven't had a chance to talk to my brother again yet!

Thanks ya'll!

(Call me whatever.)

 

[Kenneth R.]

You can't use a slide-bar to move the panning between 0 and 100? What program are you using, so I can help better

 

[AnTz0r]

That sounds like an overly advanced and complex way to record a guitar rhythm!

It's done very often like this. You run 1 through a DI and you can put it through a speaker later. You run 1 mic close to the amp to get as direct a signal as possible, and 1 or more away from the amp to get more of a "room" sound.... of course this is in a studio room with good acoustics. It's different in a home situation.

Maybe you should give Moonlapse pm, he knows a lot too.

 

[Tubbs]

It's done very often like this. You run 1 through a DI and you can put it through a speaker later. You run 1 mic close to the amp to get as direct a signal as possible, and 1 or more away from the amp to get more of a "room" sound.... of course this is in a studio room with good acoustics. It's different in a home situation.

That's basically what I said (With a few minor differences), so I guess I was right. Yay!

 

[paradoxile]

check out Andy Sneap's forum on UM Oinkness. in general, you don't want a bunch of stuff in the same space of the stereo image, so if your rhythm is 100 left/right, you dont want to put leads with the same panning or they'll overlap and get all confused up. spreading the sound across left/right is a good idea, but the degree to which you do it, for how many tracks, and where to put what, really depends on the situation and what you're trying to go for, and so any advice is pretty subjective and must be specific to your song and your style.

I don't know dick about recording guitars but what you just said concurs with what my "signal processing 2" professor taught me

 

[mattcira]

or, you just didn't want to reply because I am stupid and not worth your time. It's probably true, but I still need the help.

Couldn't be further from the truth. Dan has replied to every single emai lI have ever sent him. He makes himself very accessible to his fans, when he has time. Considering the length of your questions/requests... maybe he's working on it...

 

[AnTz0r]

does anybody know if dan responds to pm's?

 

[Dan Swanö]

Hi there

Yes, you are right. I am terribly busy these days.
I am trying to find the time to sleep, so I am sorry, but I have no time to teach the arts of recording. I am still trying to figure it out myself...
Just read all the articles you can come across..and when it comes to classical instruments...I am completely lost....

good luck

and btw. I don´t rad the Private messages here...
I have enough with my normal emails...
send one there if you need to get a hold of my

dan.swano at telia.com

have a nice day


Dan

Hey, Dan!

I've emailed you, but I think your email box is probably pretty full and you're very busy with mixing and working on your own stuff as well... or, you just didn't want to reply because I am stupid and not worth your time. It's probably true, but I still need the help.

So anyway, I've got to record rhythm guitars, leads (solos, left and right harmonic rhythms), and keyboards - also including a bit of lead square wave and such.. individual orchestral instruments like violins, flutes, cello, etc...

Let's start with the rhythm recording. Am I supposed to record the rhythms into a single track in stereo, OR into two tracks panned left and right? I've used the latter method on many recordings, and when I switch from a rhythm to a harmonic lead between two guitars, the change is extremely noticeable and I would like that to not be the case anymore. I would like to know the one right way to record rhythms and have the song flow continuously instead of having it all out of whack and shifting it's sound all the time. And when I record the two leads, I assume just play each lead and record one into 100% left track, and the other into 100% right track... If I did this how would I get it to match up to my rhythm properly when it kicks in and out of a rhythm?

Next, the keyboards! I've got a set of strings - do I record that into the center in stereo? Then additional strings into the left and right? Cello in the middle like the bass guitar, eh? Flutes, leads, stuff like that - where exactly should this sound be located in the mix, and should the rhythm strings be in the middle stereo or split left and right (like how I've been doing guitars )?

And I assume square wave should be treated like a guitar solo? Panned slightly left or right to make way for vocals, or if no vocals, located directly in the center?

Thanks! I'll appreciate serious feedback from any experienced mixer dude... and Swanö. Keep it rockin'!

 

[BrandonS]

Awww now I feel guilty... sorry there, Mr. Swanö... you get some sleep now, ya'hear?

 

[BrandonS]

You can't use a slide-bar to move the panning between 0 and 100? What program are you using, so I can help better

I'm using Adobe Audition 1.5. I can pan 100 left and right, and expand, and other stuff like that. I usually pan my heavy rhythms (in stereo) to 100% left for one track, and 100% right on the other. I record straight into the laptop through my guitar pedal! It's a Digitech RP300A. The leads don't go the same time as the rhythm, instead they become a new rhythm. Dual guitar part, you know, like early Opeth or something. I switch from Rhythm to leads once in a while and it never sounds smooth enough. Here's a good example, check out this Doom track I made earlier this year... Listen where there's rhythm, it switches to doomy leads on left and right, switches back to rhythm sweeping, and goes back to the leads... yeah... lots of going. Here is the link to this file. Oh, and be fore-warned - it's got windy growling in it. So if you don't like growls, maybe download the mp3, skip through it until you find the parts. It's also kinda lower quality for the internet. Thanketh thee!

 

[Kenneth R.]

anyone posting on this forum that doesn't like growl vox... well...

I used to have an RP200 so I know some stuff about the RP series...

Audition won't let you pan halfway? I remember it could... although what really matters is the stereo image.

Remember that what you're aiming for (generally) in recording/mixing is to have all the instruments heard and distinguishable from each other, and not sounding like they're right on top of each other. To do this, you use panning (left/right), volume (front/back), EQ (up/down) and other effects like reverb, chorus, in order to "position" each instrument in its own space. Keep in mind that something like a bass drum or bass guitar takes up a bigger space than a guitar solo or hi-hat. You want to also keep in mind that it's not enough to move them to different spots and then go with it, you've got to make it sound right with all of the instruments playing (as it would when someone listens).

Before that though, you've got to capture it - recording. My advice here is if you're using mics, be mindful of the room you're in, and where the walls reflect sound to. use angles and if you have it, some of those foam things, to keep your sound from cancelling when you don't want it to. If you're recording direct, then you've got to make sure your signal doesn't get clipped on the way in. This applies to the mic method also... All the way through the chain you have to make sure the sound doesn't distort when you don't want it to- it means the waveform is hitting the max level and flatlining, and that sounds really bad on a recording. Even if the whole setup is good except one at the beginning, that initial distortion will carry all the way through- so make sure you set your levels (volume) in all your gear, hardware and software, before recording. Hell, even doing a short test recording is a good idea.

Mastering- this is when you've mixed all your tracks, and you do some final adjustments to the album as a whole, to make it sound the way you want it, track at a time, so that the tracks seem to fit together (no sudden unwanted tone changes or volume changes) the way you want. This is all very subjective, and I am being extremely brief, so just use this to get an idea and go further on your own.

I also really recommend checking out Audition's manual/faq/user guide to find shortcuts and tips so you can use it to the fullest.

 

[BrandonS]

That's the thing though, Audition DOES let me pan left and right, it has everything you mentioned... but I need to figure out how to get my guitar parts panned so that they sound continuous, like when the rhythm section becomes a lead section.. I notice it's a lot wider when both left and right are leads, yet when it whips back into the rhythm it sounds more in the middle even though it's the same exact settings. :-\

 

[Kenneth R.]

ah, exactly. because the settings are just settings. what matters is what it sounds like, so you should tweak it until it's the way you want. the same settings won't work through an entire song.

 

[Dan Swanö]

mixing an album is a bit like cooking.
You need to try everything every possible way and there will be some occational vomiting in the process...

and b.t.w.
You know what the difference between being the engineer at a mixingsession, and a toilet???

The toilet only have to take shit from one asshole at a time

 

[Tumn]

and b.t.w.
You know what the difference between being the engineer at a mixingsession, and a toilet???

The toilet only have to take shit from one asshole at a time

The most important thing from this whole thread spoken from the master himself!

 

[AnTz0r]

mixing an album is a bit like cooking.
You need to try everything every possible way and there will be some occational vomiting in the process...

and b.t.w.
You know what the difference between being the engineer at a mixingsession, and a toilet???

The toilet only have to take shit from one asshole at a time

huhu, you might want to skip that part in your resumé