The Return of the "How it Happened" post...PP USA XI

johnfrank1970 said:
I would also love a classic thrash fest, which would seem to be doable, but the only event like this I can recall was Thrash of the Titans.
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Thrash of the Titans was one of the best shows that I ever attended. I would love to see another classic thrash fest in North America.


Matt Crooks said:
As much as I would like to see show "B", I'd put my (promoter) money on "A".
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I agree with you. I would enjoy seeing all of the bands on show "B" but only 2-3 of show "A."
 
Harvester said:
I disagree with you argument above based on population pools alone. If this was only being sold as a local show, I agree totally. However, I pull from across the country. Comparing that available pool to the relatively small amount of tickets sold invalidates that to me.
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Glenn... while I would never argue promotion with you, I don't believe this is purely a promotion question. Your assumption, unless I'm misreading it, seems flawed. Like any equation, the common arguments can be removed for the purposes of simplification. In this case, the local and national arguments are common to every ProgPower and need not be evaluated. So what we're left to evaluate is simply the pool of Metal fans. I believe that pool contains far more Power Metal fans, which is precisely why Power Metal draws better.

Harvester said:
Heres a hypothetical situation:

Two shows:

A. Blind Guardian, Pain of Salvation, Sabaton, Riverside.
B. Fates Warning (or sub any non DT related pure prog band), Gamma Ray, Vanden Plas, Brainstorm


You have 100 possible attendees. All of them with the same geographical logistics and travel costs, etc. Exactly half of them are prog fans, half of them are power fans. Which show draws more out of those 100? And are you willing to put your money on the line based on your answer?
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The problem I have with this hypothetical question is that it's not merely a hypothetical question; it's also a straw man argument. From a pool of 100 Metal fans, you don't have 50 Power Metal fans and 50 Prog Metal fans. These two genres have never been equal; not back "in the day" and not now. And I'd argue that among the most critical demographic, 18 - 25 year old males, that breakdown is probably even more dramatically skewed in favor of Power Metal today.

I suspect we both agree that Option A, the Blind Guardian show, will sell better. And we both agree, that in the end, Power Metal sells better. However, if you want to argue that Power Metal sells better because Prog Metal fans don't support their genre, I'm not sure how you could prove that empirically. And I'm not clear yet how the circumstantial evidence supports that either.

Zod
 
She's hot, she's fun and now she apparently reads minds. Ditto to what she said. Sure there are some bands I would LOVE to see, and haven't given up hope on them popping up some time in the future - but they are probably too "old school" for a lot of people here. If I want to see them bad enough - I'll have to bust my ass and start my own Festival of Geriatric Rockers :) (Don't steal the name - the trademark app is already turned in :)

I just go with whoever Glenn ends up picking - a good portion of it is new to me every year, so I like the feeling of "ooh, that band rocked, better hit the vendors real quick" that comes from being impressed by a band playing live. I do try to buy/listen to as many of them as I can before ATL - but I know that the vendors there will hook me up if there is something I can't find here.

I do like reading these How It Came Into Being posts - be interested to hear your other thoughts on this years fest and all the BS you had to go through if you care to revisit that place sometime in the future. It's educational and entertaining, good writing :)


Reverend Su said:
thanks for this, Glenn! :worship:notworthy:worship:

being that I am who and how I am, I am probably the least picky festival attendee: Glenn picks 'em, I check 'em out.

I was lucky enough to be able to listen to stuff (at least 3 tracks from each band; some, at least an entire album) from most of the bands this past weekend - and I am TOTALLY looking forward to most of the bands at this point.

I know I will get trashed in some corners for my POV, but that's cool - I like being able to check out new bands every year...of course, I *do* have my faves out there, who i would love to see back...but that's *my* fantasy festival, not Glenn's ;)

as long as he is putting on this festival, The Su will be there :)
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General Zod said:
However, if you want to argue that Power Metal sells better because Prog Metal fans don't support their genre, I'm not sure how you could prove that empirically. And I'm not clear yet how the circumstantial evidence supports that either.

Zod
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Quid Pro Quo. I don't think you can disprove that either in terms of festival attendance. I'm not claiming any of it is fact. I just go with gut 95% of the time. It's served me well so far.
 
Angrafan said:
I think the economy shouldn't be taken lightly... That alone makes it very hard to prove any theory regarding last year's non-sell out.
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Completely agree with this statement. I lost my job in May, and still haven't found a new one. If I hadn't already bought my tickets + airfare and reserved hotels back in March/April, there would've been no way I would make it. Many other festivals and tours lost their asses or canceled outright. People lost lots of money last fall with the financial market collapse, the housing market is now in the crapper, banks are failing left and right.....people are frickin' scared to death....and PPUSA X didn't sell out cuz there was too much prog in the lineup? You're really going to think that?

Dragonforce + Sonata Arctica played the House of Blues in Chicago last week....you could've bought a ticket for $10. 10 bucks! That didn't sell out...how do you explain that? Because it's a school night? The show was over at 9 pm!

Rant over....I respect your opinion and reasoning. Just please don't do what CPF has done and abandon all sanity and book the likes of Devildriver. :puke:

I'm more prog than power when listening and buying product, but nothing gets my blood pumping at a live show than a decent power act like Sabaton and Primal Fear. Looking forward to next year and hope I can get a job soon to get tickets for XI.
 
Jasonic said:
These never were drawing bands, even back in the day.
Their inactiveness certainly hasn't helped increase their fanbase.
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Exactly what I've been saying. They've both been bands that were HIGHLY praised by their peers, but between lack of promotion and not really radio friendly, they never brought in a lot of people.
 
Harvester said:
Oceans of Sadness - The Bite Me Band
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:worship:rock::worship:rock::worship:rock:

I think they are Alice in Chains meets Type O Negative with a splash of Dimmu Borgir. Regardless I've said it all over the forum. FUCK YES!

Harvester said:
Tyr
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Fuck yes!


Regardless if I like your choices or not, it's always a blast to read how it all happened.

-MetalRose
 
nomisofsiman said:
Exactly what I've been saying. They've both been bands that were HIGHLY praised by their peers, but between lack of promotion and not really radio friendly, they never brought in a lot of people.
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Word.
Look at a band like TROUBLE.
They are in the same boat, where they are the "band's band".
Everyone from Megadeth to Metallica has tried to copy their twin guitar approach and sound levels.

Where is TROUBLE now here in the states?
Playing to crowds of no more than 150 a night.
I have personally seen them play, in the Chicagoland area, to a crowd of 50 at best.

They have kept going all these years, and kept making more of a name for themselves. This has enabled them to still get invited to many Euro festivals each year, and make a semi-decent living, enough to keep going.

Bands like Savatage, FW, and Crimson Glory seemed to let metal's popularity determine their fate.

I hate to say it, but if Savatage ever does a proper reunion tour or gig, I seriously do not think it will be the BE ALL END ALL metal event that many on here think it would be.
 
Dolamite S. Biffle said:
I agree but those 300 people will be in heaven.
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Do you think that Savatage's band is better than JoP's? I realize that Savatage would probably pull a few more than JoP, but without Criss, I see no reason to have a Savatage tour. I realize that some of the guys who have played with them are very talented, but JoP blew me away so much I have a hard time believing that it would be improved.
 
KingsGene said:
Completely agree with this statement. I lost my job in May, and still haven't found a new one. If I hadn't already bought my tickets + airfare and reserved hotels back in March/April, there would've been no way I would make it. Many other festivals and tours lost their asses or canceled outright. People lost lots of money last fall with the financial market collapse, the housing market is now in the crapper, banks are failing left and right.....people are frickin' scared to death....and PPUSA X didn't sell out cuz there was too much prog in the lineup? You're really going to think that?
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Good point. We came very close to not going this year even though we had paid for the airfare and the tickets. If we hadn't found somebody to split the room with, we would not have showed. Lots of people are out of jobs, and that will stop them from seeing local shows, let alone shows that require travel and hotels. We haven't been to one show besides PP all year (I went to Volbeat, but that was an odd situation), and aside from PP (if we can afford it next year) we probably won't be to one this year either.
 
Jasonic said:
Word.
Look at a band like TROUBLE.
They are in the same boat, where they are the "band's band".
Everyone from Megadeth to Metallica has tried to copy their twin guitar approach and sound levels.

Where is TROUBLE now here in the states?
Playing to crowds of no more than 150 a night.
I have personally seen them play, in the Chicagoland area, to a crowd of 50 at best.

They have kept going all these years, and kept making more of a name for themselves. This has enabled them to still get invited to many Euro festivals each year, and make a semi-decent living, enough to keep going.

Bands like Savatage, FW, and Crimson Glory seemed to let metal's popularity determine their fate.

I hate to say it, but if Savatage ever does a proper reunion tour or gig, I seriously do not think it will be the BE ALL END ALL metal event that many on here think it would be.
Click to expand...

I've always wanted to see Trouble, but you nailed it on the head. I remember when At the Gates did their reunion tour last year, during the show in Chicago they were talking about Trouble on stage and even had the Trouble insignia on their forearms. haha.

As for Savatage. They've always been a European band even though they are from here. It really sucks too with how popular TSO has gotten when it's the same type of sound, except not Christmas. But I know Jon has said in interviews that it pisses him off so much that that has happened. Honestly though, me seeing Jon Oliva's Pain at last year's progpower made my quota for Savatage.
 
Cheiron said:
Do you think that Savatage's band is better than JoP's? I realize that Savatage would probably pull a few more than JoP, but without Criss, I see no reason to have a Savatage tour. I realize that some of the guys who have played with them are very talented, but JoP blew me away so much I have a hard time believing that it would be improved.
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Agreed. JoP is the new Savatage. They were one of my favorites at PPUSA IX and I honestly don't foresee what would be a Savatage concert to outdo that. The only thing I wish I had done is see them at one of their headlining shows to see a longer set.
 
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