The Scooped Guitars Thread

[miguelrx10d]

Hey guys,

I know most of you hate scooped guitars (so save your hate), but I gotta say I love this balsy midless tones when properly mixed and I'm not alone

When talking about this subject most people automatically think about old school bands/tones but it's just not an old school thing...
There are lots of recent albuns with the guitars fairly scooped and they just sound great... one of the greatest examples is Doomsday Machine.

I was listening to this and was just mindblown on how powerful the guitars sound:


Other example (from Ola):


Both are very scooped especially on the 400Hz area but still retain a lot of body and note definition (maybe not on smaller speakers, who cares)...

This is what I'm always trying to get with my guitar sound and mixes but all I get is a thin sound that gets buried and doesnt cut thru the other instruments, masking them instead... if you listen to Doomsday Machine it's brilliant how the guitars sit and leave so much space for drum ambience making the mix tridimensional... same with Heartwork from Carcass..

So questions for this thread:
- What's the best way to approach a mix with somehow scooped guitars (not saying theres like a V curve, just less mids than the usual modern tone), like how to get a good separation and keep the guitars in your face?

- How to treat the high end on this kind of sound, like should I use more treble or presence in the amp (depends of the amp obviously, but just talk about the one(s) you own, in my case a JVM)

- How to gel the bass to this kind of tone? What space should it be placed in? Maybe it needs a lot of content in the 140-300Hz area to compensate the lack of body in the guitars or should I leave that space for the guitar chugs ressonance and get a more sub based approach?

- Is the multi miking approach the best to go with regardin this type of guitar sound? Or the single sm57 will work just fine if the amp tone is dialed correctly?

- What are your favourite modern and old school productions with scooped guitars?

CHEERS

 

[infectdsniper]

well most people just scoop the mids on the amp and then small amounts of post eq for anything extra. i believe ola has his settings in the vid description

 

[Terminus]

I take out 600hz about -2dBs to -4dBs in post eq (a narrow cut), seems like both my guitars have a bump there that's annoying. On my amp the mid knob is somewhere around 3-4 most of the time. When I use sims, in particular the lecto, mids are squarely at 9 o'clock. I would say that I'm more in the middle ground between liking scooped and liking mids but I can appreciate both types of sound. There's always a sweet spot depending on room and your ears on any given day.

As for mixing it, really just try to keep it simple and hp.lp it and if you think it needs more, do it...otherwise don't touch it.

 

[EffigyForgotten]

Djent ftw.

 

[Sethis]

When I'm thinking scooped guitars it's not exactly what you posted here. That's within the limits of normal nowadays imo. I think most modern metal sounds something like this. In fact, I like it like this because the low-mids area tends to get lots of clutter which translates to mud.

It has always worked better for me if I don't consider the guitar as the "main" instrument but that it's just there to fill the empty spots that drums and bass create. These two can make or break the deal on a metal track. Creating huge walls of distorted guitars can easily drown everything. It's never the guitars that suffer from this problem due to their nature. So a more body-less guitar tone works nicely imo. As usual, mic placement is everything. That's what Ola also does in that video.

@wutzington: I loled with the vocals XD

 

[miguelrx10d]

thanks for the replies guys

@wutzington: ahahah come on dude, not that scooped jesus

When I'm thinking scooped guitars it's not exactly what you posted here. That's within the limits of normal nowadays imo. I think most modern metal sounds something like this. In fact, I like it like this because the low-mids area tends to get lots of clutter which translates to mud.

It has always worked better for me if I don't consider the guitar as the "main" instrument but that it's just there to fill the empty spots that drums and bass create. These two can make or break the deal on a metal track. Creating huge walls of distorted guitars can easily drown everything. It's never the guitars that suffer from this problem due to their nature. So a more body-less guitar tone works nicely imo. As usual, mic placement is everything. That's what Ola also does in that video.

yeah that was exactly my purpose!! The examples posted are not "scooped" per se, they're like a modern scooped sound, as you said theyre still within the limits of normal, BUT they have less mids and therefore a more agressive edge, that's what I'm always trying to achieve! We can talk about that old school V curve and shit (I guess the real scooped guitars), wich I like too but that sound defines an era and I think nobody is interested in going back to the past...

Bout mixing yeah mic placement is key, but then how should we treat the bass to fill that body-less guitars? Cause I always get this big hole on low mids which obviously translates to a body-less mix

I shall post some samples if people want me too

 

[Clark Kent]

I don't think either of these tones was scooped. Djent is anti-scoop BTW!

LOL and thanks for the Dawn of Demise link. I haven't laughed this hard in ages... that "vocalist" sure is a great comedian.

 

[DanLights]

LOL and thanks for the Dawn of Demise link. I haven't laughed this hard in ages... that "vocalist" sure is a great comedian.

May I ask why you find it comedy-worthy?

 

[slaytah]

thanks for the replies guys

@wutzington: ahahah come on dude, not that scooped jesus



yeah that was exactly my purpose!! The examples posted are not "scooped" per se, they're like a modern scooped sound, as you said theyre still within the limits of normal, BUT they have less mids and therefore a more agressive edge, that's what I'm always trying to achieve! We can talk about that old school V curve and shit (I guess the real scooped guitars), wich I like too but that sound defines an era and I think nobody is interested in going back to the past...

Bout mixing yeah mic placement is key, but then how should we treat the bass to fill that body-less guitars? Cause I always get this big hole on low mids which obviously translates to a body-less mix

I shall post some samples if people want me too

Yeah, post some samples.

I just checked your band out, good shit man!

 

[Clark Kent]

May I ask why you find it comedy-worthy?

Well... most likely it's just that I don't understand the connection between that kind of "singing" and musicality. To say it as strictly as I can... I've heard farts that are more musical than that. If you push a fart out with good technique you can get a straight note.

Personally I love screams when they are justified. Vocals are all about emotion and you can scream out of anger etc. but if you're just making frog sounds in a calm manner, I personally can't relate to that. In this case I don't think anyone can be sure about the words he is saying. If he's singing about how he was born a frog in a human body then I have no problem with his performance.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that when you scream it has to be tied to some kind of emotion or else it seems like a joke. F.ex. this epic song from 2:47 forward:

 

[DanLights]

Well... most likely it's just that I don't understand the connection between that kind of "singing" and musicality. To say it as strictly as I can... I've heard farts that are more musical than that. If you push a fart out with good technique you can get a straight note.

Personally I love screams when they are justified. Vocals are all about emotion and you can scream out of anger etc. but if you're just making frog sounds in a calm manner, I personally can't relate to that. In this case I don't think anyone can be sure about the words he is saying. If he's singing about how he was born a frog in a human body then I have no problem with his performance.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that when you scream it has to be tied to some kind of emotion or else it seems like a joke. F.ex. this epic song from 2:47 forward:

Yeah, all I read was "I'm a narrow minded dick who has a set paradigm of how singing should be and therefore laugh at those who don't do it according to my rules".

 

[EffigyForgotten]

Do Fear Factory, Six feet under and Pantera count as super scooped bands?

 

[EffigyForgotten]

Djent is anti-scoop

Holy shit captain obvious!

 

[Clark Kent]

Yeah, all I read was "I'm a narrow minded dick who has a set paradigm of how singing should be and therefore laugh at those who don't do it according to my rules".

I said it was my opinion. We're all entitled to have one. It was honestly funny to me even without the ironic nudge I made. I just think that the job of a vocalist is to deliver a message to the crowd and do it with honest emotion. I'm not saying that I'm right and you're wrong. This is just how this seems to me. He's no Howard Jones.

About being narrow minded, I think everyone is narrow minded in certain aspects. I personally am happy that I'm able to enjoy different genres from classical to jazz to pop to fusion to funk to reggae to prog to rock to rap to metal etc. Techno and frog-farting will be my narrow minded moment for sure.

 

[Pinknoise]

Stop the bitching girls! I'm new to mixing and knowing djent is anti-scooped is good for me!...Mixing tricks and opinions welcome! still listening!...

 

[JakeAC5253]

 

[miguelrx10d]

I don't think either of these tones was scooped. Djent is anti-scoop BTW!

LOL and thanks for the Dawn of Demise link. I haven't laughed this hard in ages... that "vocalist" sure is a great comedian.

Dude, you're in a metal forum, people listen to metal and Dawn of Demise is just a death metal band (a very good one actually)... if you don't like the vocals or any other thing you can't say shit like that when there are townsands of people who actually appreciate it, including me. I don't like that gayass video you just posted but I respect your liking and I don't make fun of it.

Now, please stay on topic guys

Yeah, post some samples.
I just checked your band out, good shit man!

will do then!
thanks a lot, we're just startin and feels really good to hear that

Do Fear Factory, Six feet under and Pantera count as super scooped bands?

ahaha those are scooped classics

 

[DanLights]

I said it was my opinion. We're all entitled to have one. It was honestly funny to me even without the ironic nudge I made. I just think that the job of a vocalist is to deliver a message to the crowd and do it with honest emotion. I'm not saying that I'm right and you're wrong. This is just how this seems to me. He's no Howard Jones.

About being narrow minded, I think everyone is narrow minded in certain aspects. I personally am happy that I'm able to enjoy different genres from classical to jazz to pop to fusion to funk to reggae to prog to rock to rap to metal etc. Techno and frog-farting will be my narrow minded moment for sure.

You can't publicly laugh at something and call it comedy and then say your entitled to your opinion. I dislike reggae very much, but I don't go calling it all ridiculous and stupid in forums where people like that.

 

[Clark Kent]

Yeah, I realize I was out of line there. Sorry for that.

 

[miguelrx10d]