The Veggie Thread

[DanLights]

That's exactly what they're doing when naming the plates like that. Turn it the other way around - why do they have to associate meat types with the dishes when consciously avoiding meat altogether? It's not like I'm eating bacon cucumber, right?

It's called like that because it visually resembles the meat dish, but again, no one actually claims to be eating meat. Many people (me included) like the taste, texture, way of serving, etc. of certain types of meat, so it's nice to have a vegan alternative in order no to go to far from old habits but avoiding actually eating animals. Again, I see nothing wrong with it.


Ok, the sushi example wasn't that good, although originally sushi meant the combination of rice and raw fish. Vegetarian sushi doesn't contain fish. Seitan kebab is something the vegetarian enthusiast keep talking about all the time, at least around here. And tofu ham? Yup. Tofu ham, tofu sausage, tofu hot dog, you name it. On of the most common vegetarian dish around these parts is tofu [insert meat here].

Yeah I love tofu sausages, just never seen them used as ham, but I'm sure there are, there's tofu everything nowadays hahahaha

Once again, what's wrong with it? Is a hot dog bun and a food shaped like a real sausage exclusive to people who eat animals? Some of us want to have them without actually consuming sentient beings, and are glad there are all those alternatives.

 

[DanLights]

yeah, you can buy "tofu-schnitzel" and so on around here, it's named like the "real deal" and they make
it actually look almost identical, no clue why, there are tastier ways and if I would dislike meat and so
on, I wouldn't want to eat something that looks the same.

again, not all veggies dislike meat, some (me included) do it for other reasons but appreciate the fact that there are similar, animal-free meals that hold a similar texture/flavor (key word: similar) and can be served in the same way.

 

[Jarkko Mattheiszen]

Yeah I love tofu sausages, just never seen them used as ham, but I'm sure there are, there's tofu everything nowadays hahahaha

Once again, what's wrong with it? Is a hot dog bun and a food shaped like a real sausage exclusive to people who eat animals? Some of us want to have them without actually consuming sentient beings, and are glad there are all those alternatives.

Nah man, you're missing the point. Hot dog means a sausage served in a sliced bun, and sausage means meat served in a skin of sorts. They're not exclusive dishes at all, but they're simply words that describe MEAT foods. That's why something like vegetarian kebab is an oxymoron.

 

[MarcusGHedwig]

Because I hate reading books, could someone rattle off some dishes (that don't include soy, too obvious) and individual foodstuffs that give lots of protein and 9 amino acids and blah di blah? Thanks d00dz

And +1 to the hilarity of Jarkko's point

Also, most animals are not sentient (certainly not the ones we eat), because they're not self-aware and don't reflect on their actions

 

[DanLights]

Nah man, you're missing the point. Hot dog means a sausage served in a sliced bun, and sausage means meat served in a skin of sorts. They're not exclusive dishes at all, but they're simply words that describe MEAT foods. That's why something like vegetarian kebab is an oxymoron.

I understand your point, but saying a vegan sausage (salchitofu as some are called here in Spain) is simply an easy to say something that looks like and can be served in the same manner as a sausage, but made of vegan ingredients. Much easier to call it tofu sausage or vegan sausage than "sausage-shaped thing that looks like and can be served in the same manner as a sausage" don't you think? It's for purpose of identifying, simplicity and the fact that sausages and tofu sausages are easily interchangeable in the context of a hot dog because all other ingredients would be the same. Looks like a hot dog, feels like a hot dog, do we really need completely new confusing names for these meals?

 

[DanLights]

A sausage is a food usually made from ground meat (normally pork or beef), mixed with salt, herbs, and other spices with a tough skin around it, although vegetarian sausages are available. The word sausage is derived from Old French saussiche, from the Latin word salsus, meaning salted.[1]
Typically, a sausage is formed in a casing traditionally made from intestine, but sometimes synthetic. Some sausages are cooked during processing and the casing may be removed after.

So according to wikipedia, a vegan sausage can also be a sausage ;-)

 

[DanLights]

Because I hate reading books, could someone rattle off some dishes (that don't include soy, too obvious) and individual foodstuffs that give lots of protein and 9 amino acids and blah di blah? Thanks d00dz

And +1 to the hilarity of Jarkko's point : D

As far as my knowledge goes (I'm still reading and learning), I don't think there's any non meat or soy ingredient that includes all 9 amino acids together, different ones are found in different foods, and it has been proved recently that you don't have to mix them all at the same time in one meal, it can be throughout the day and you still get the full protein. Sorry I can't give specifics on appropriate combinations, as I said, I'm still learning

 

[MarcusGHedwig]

No prob, I'll do some googling - looking at sone of the things in your OP, though (pepper + mushroom sandwich, potato thing), that's way too little protein for me; the chickpeas are good shit though

 

[DanLights]

No prob, I'll do some googling - looking at sone of the things in your OP, though (pepper + mushroom sandwich, potato thing), that's way too little protein for me; the chickpeas are good shit though

yeah chickpeas are essential for vegans, I loooove a hummus and mushrooms sandwich (hummus is more or less like a chickpea cream)

 

[StefTD]

I get what you mean, Dan, it was more about people who think meat is
wrong anyways.
I love couscous that was boiled in my selfmade vegetable soup with hacked
tomatoes, parslay and basil-roasted bread with garlic and oil is nice.

 

[ruonitb]

As far as my knowledge goes (I'm still reading and learning), I don't think there's any non meat or soy ingredient that includes all 9 amino acids together, different ones are found in different foods, and it has been proved recently that you don't have to mix them all at the same time in one meal, it can be throughout the day and you still get the full protein. Sorry I can't give specifics on appropriate combinations, as I said, I'm still learning

Yep, protein combining (the theory that you have to combine foods in one meal) is bs.

However, there are non-soy vegan foods which contain all essential amino acids, i.e. they have a amino acid score >= 100.

F.e.:

http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/cereal-grains-and-pasta/10352/2

http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/vegetables-and-vegetable-products/2770/2

This is a really good website by the way.


At the bodybuilding guy:

http://veganbodybuilding.com ...or google Patrik Baboumian.

 

[LeSedna]

I understand the whole vegan idea in a nutshell, but damn, that's just so frustrating for me to only eat vegan dishes for a few days. Plus, I need you to give me a good alternative to Magret de Canard (some kind of grilled duck breast) to convince me because life cannot be full without it

I also can't stand the idea of living without this :

Well sorry for derailing but that's the reaction it creates in me. I have to say though that I have nothing about Vegan dishes, I actually love very good vegetables. I'm just reluctant about the idea of cutting a part of your natural sources of food, and removing a lot of pleasure. Of course you can always incorporate fun in your dishes to make up for it, but it sounds too much of a fix to me. So far what I have read from vegan points of view were too BS-ish sounding to me to convince me. I would need another point of view than vegan girls eating 3 times as much as I do ! Also it's too difficult for me to see the implications of what we buy. When you think you do a good action by buying something environment-friendly, you discover after some research it might be actually worse or neutral in the end. It's like carbon-friendly cars which still need shitload of carbon print to be made in factories. So if you have good links that sum up (otherwise TL;DR might occur) good points of that lifestyle I might get some inspiration from it !

 

[ruonitb]

So far what I have read from vegan points of view were too BS-ish sounding to me to convince me. I would need another point of view than vegan girls eating 3 times as much as I do !

I don't know what you mean by the 'vegan girls'-thing but people are vegan for very different reasons. Some are because they think it's healthier, some are because they think it's better for the environment and some are for ethical reasons or a combination of these reasons.
I'm vegan because I accept the premise that it's wrong to inflict unnecessary pain and suffering on non-human animals.

Also it's too difficult for me to see the implications of what we buy. When you think you do a good action by buying something environment-friendly, you discover after some research it might be actually worse or neutral in the end. It's like carbon-friendly cars which still need shitload of carbon print to be made in factories. So if you have good links that sum up (otherwise TL;DR might occur) good points of that lifestyle I might get some inspiration from it !

So I guess that you're rather interested in the environmental benefits of your diet. Well, there are studies done on the subject. And it's pretty clear that the breeding of animals is waste of resources.
Maybe this peer-reviewed article is something you could find interesting:

http://www.eve.ucdavis.edu/catoft/eve101/Protected/PDF/lit/Baroni_etal_2007.pdf

According to EU Commission data, Europe can grow enough vegetable proteins to feed all its inhabitants, but not all its farm animals. Only 20% of the proteins that are fed to animals originates in Europe. The missing amount is imported from other countries, including developing ones, playing an important role in the further impoverishment of these countries and in the exploitation of their environmental resources (FAO, 2001). The increase in the use of land for animal husbandry purposes is linked to deforestation and to the modification of the management of rainforests (Denslow and Padoch, 1988). Every year 17 million hectares of rainforests are destroyed, and the trend is increasing: the Institute for Space Research of the Brazilian government has documented a 40% growth of deforestation from 2002 to 2003. Even though not all the land is used for rearing cattle, most of it is: in the Amazon 88% of the land cleared from rainforests has been used for grazing; in Costa Rica and Panama the amount is about 70%(WWF, 1997), whereas the influence of wood production in the deforestation process is relatively lower (Kaimowitz et al., 2003). In semi-arid areas like Africa, land is increasingly used for extensive farming of products, which are not used to feed the local human population but are exported to developed countries as cattle feed, or for cattle grazing. This use of land is an important factor responsible for the desertification process. The UN estimate that at present 70% of drylands and about 25% of the total land area of the world is undergoing desertification (UN, 2004).

If animals are considered as ‘food production machines’, these machines turn out to be extremely polluting, to have a very high consumption and to be very inefficient. When vegetables are transformed into animal proteins, most of the proteins and energy contained in the vegetables are wasted; the vegetables consumed as feed are used by the animals for their metabolic processes, as well as to build non-edible tissue like bones, cartilage, offal and faeces (Moriconi, 2001). [...] If we only take into account fossil fuel consumption, production of one calorie from beef needs 40 calories of fuel; one calorie from milk needs 14 fuel calories, whereas one calorie from grains can be obtained from 2.2 calories of fossil fuels (Pimentel and Pimentel, 2003; Reijnders and Soret, 2003).

Water consumption represents by itself the most dramatic impact: it counts for 41–46% of the overall impact: Animal farming and agriculture are responsible for 70% of freshwater consumption on the planet, whereas only 22% of water is used by industry and 8% is used for domestic purposes (World Watch Institute, 2004).

From my personal experience I can say that it's really not that hard to go vegan. I like the taste of meat, cheese and other animal products. Depending on where you're living, living a vegan lifestyle might be more or less difficult and not being vegan might be more convenient. But I don't miss any of it. What you eat and what you like to eat, what tastes good and what doesn't taste good is really just a matter of habit.

Also:

"If you think that being vegan is difficult, imagine how difficult it is for animals that you are not vegan." - Gary L Francione

 

[BrettT]

As far as my knowledge goes (I'm still reading and learning), I don't think there's any non meat or soy ingredient that includes all 9 amino acids together, different ones are found in different foods, and it has been proved recently that you don't have to mix them all at the same time in one meal, it can be throughout the day and you still get the full protein. Sorry I can't give specifics on appropriate combinations, as I said, I'm still learning

Hemp milk contains all the essential aminos. I noticed this today when at the local Natural Grocers store. Luckily, here in Austin, vegetarian and vegan foods are extremely easy to come by.

 

[AllanD]

I love how retards always come in to derail vegetarian threads. And they say people shoving vegan/vegetarian beliefs down your throat is annoying...

 

[drew_drummer]

I love how retards always come in to derail vegetarian threads. And they say people shoving vegan/vegetarian beliefs down your throat is annoying...

I get what you're saying, but this thread in itself could be construed as trying to shove veg beliefs down our throats. If it wasn't there in the first place, you'd have nothing to now be complaining about.

 

[drew_drummer]

I'm vegan because I accept the premise that it's wrong to inflict unnecessary pain and suffering on non-human animals.

But it's fine to inflict pain and suffering on human animals??

Sorry... but if you really believed that, you'd be living in a cave with no computer or electricity, sleeping on a bed of leaves - oh wait... can't do that, coz those leaves are somethings habitat. You'll just have to sleep in the dirt.

 

[ruonitb]

But it's fine to inflict pain and suffering on human animals??

Wow. So I don't want X, hence I want Y?
A logical propaedeutic probably wouldn't hurt.

Sorry... but if you really believed that, you'd be living in a cave with no computer or electricity, sleeping on a bed of leaves - oh wait... can't do that, coz those leaves are somethings habitat. You'll just have to sleep in the dirt.

Care to elaborate? (it's not like I've never had this exact argument before, but I'm just curious with what kind of nonsense you can come up to rationalise this)

 

[DanLights]

I get what you're saying, but this thread in itself could be construed as trying to shove veg beliefs down our throats. If it wasn't there in the first place, you'd have nothing to now be complaining about.

Uhm... No. Clearly stated in the OP, this is to share the experience in general amongst people who care about it, I also asked non-veggies to gtfo if they weren't gonna share meals or participate. Are you retarded dear sir?

 

[Line666]

I pretty much only eat meat and dairy. What do you call that, am I like the anti-vegan?