The white man is evil?

[Neith]

Is that why the UN considers the primary cause of their lack of food to be political instability?

Whites were not the first to colonize Africa, nor made any changes that could not be undone.

I sense guilt more than logic in your reply.

Political instability that we caused in the sense that we introduced them to modern political systems. If their agricultural ways had not been tampered with their food production would never have dimnished. This is the way I see things, whether it is right or not. That is the beauty of opinon.

I think we made a lot of changes that cannot be undone, and they are not being undone at the minute.

I am not guilty, I do not feel guilty for what they suffer, but if i was to visit I would. It's oart of my nature to care about other people. So what I said was not the product of guilt, but of opinion based on what I have learned, what I have been taught and what I believe to work. I have seen statistics that show methods such as those I outlined work.

Needless to say, not everybody agrees with me, and probably very few do, including Africans themselves. See the following link which is an interview with James Shikwati, a Kenyan economics expert. He thinks the best thing we could do for Africa is to stop giving them aid, partly due to politics, as Norsemaiden pointed out.

http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/spiegel/0,1518,363663,00.html

 

[speed]

Political instability that we caused in the sense that we introduced them to modern political systems. If their agricultural ways had not been tampered with their food production would never have dimnished. This is the way I see things, whether it is right or not. That is the beauty of opinon.

I think we made a lot of changes that cannot be undone, and they are not being undone at the minute.

I am not guilty, I do not feel guilty for what they suffer, but if i was to visit I would. It's oart of my nature to care about other people. So what I said was not the product of guilt, but of opinion based on what I have learned, what I have been taught and what I believe to work. I have seen statistics that show methods such as those I outlined work.

Needless to say, not everybody agrees with me, and probably very few do, including Africans themselves. See the following link which is an interview with James Shikwati, a Kenyan economics expert. He thinks the best thing we could do for Africa is to stop giving them aid, partly due to politics, as Norsemaiden pointed out.

http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/spiegel/0,1518,363663,00.html

I'll expand upon this, but the research and the last thirty-forty years of experience proves Neith right on this one.

Much of the aid given to Africa was conditional aid, tied to specific programs that had to be completed and were of no use to anyone. And then there is the IMF and World Bank aid that was tied to economic austerity programs that dramtically cut health, social spending and a great number of jobs, and the selling off of national businesses to the rich nationals, plus the opening of the country, with no tariffs at all, to free trade (this to me, is the biggest problem). It has been a massive failure, hasnt worked in a single country, and has caused the economic regression of many countries. All of South America has decided to forego these programs, but the African countries are dependent on like 40% of their goverment income, and thus in no position to say no.

 

[derek]

The rich continue to get richer and the poorer get poorer.

 

[speed]

The rich continue to get richer and the poorer get poorer.

Especially in America. Incomes of the average family fell 3.2% I believe (somewhere in the 3.somehtings), last year, poverty increased a few percentage points, and would be higher if we stopped using 40 year old poverty rates--ie regional poverty lines as 30 grand in D.C., NYC, or Silicon valley is essentially poverty anywhere else)

The Economist ran a huge article in Sep or Aug of last year, that detailed the disturbing rise in rich incomes, and the stagnation and decline in real value of middle class and poor incomes. They essentially made the claim the United States is following the very same pattern as the British empire before its decline 100 years ago.

 

[OfManAndMetal]

The rich continue to get richer and the poorer get poorer.

sadly thats how life is these days...

 

[infoterror]

Political instability that we caused in the sense that we introduced them to modern political systems.

Here we agree, and I'll go further: I'm not so sure "modern political systems" are anything but a Ponzi scheme.

As a pan-Nationalist, I believe African ethnic sovreignty should hold regardless, and we should not interfere no matter how our "good intentions" lead us to want to modernize, Christianize, educate, invest, etc.

Africa for Africans!

 

[Silver Incubus]

Albino = Satan

 

[The Winnipeg Warrior]

Racism and bigotry works both ways. There are as many "black", "asian", hispanic", and "First Nations/Aboriginal" bigots and racists as there are "white" ones. However, if a white person were to make the same comments that Bryant Gumbel made regarding the recent Torino Winter Olympic Games, that individual would have been called on the carpet and removed from their position. However, being white myself, I sometimes do feel that we have made our own bed, so to speak. And now we have to lie in it.

Even the snow is white...

And finally tonight, the Winter Games. Count me among those that don't like 'em and won't watch 'em. In fact, I figure when Thomas Paine said, "These are the times that try men's souls," he must have been talking about the start of another Winter Olympics.

Because they are so trying, maybe over the next three weeks we should all try too. Like try not to be incredulous when someone tries to link these games to those of the ancient Greeks who never heard of skating or skiing.

So try not to laugh when someone says these are the world's greatest athletes, despite a paucity of blacks that makes the Winter Games look like a GOP convention.

Try not to point out that something's not really a sport if a pseudo-athlete waits in what's called a "kiss and cry area" while some panel of subjective judges decides who won.

And try to blot out all logic when announcers and sports writers pretend to care about the luge, the skeleton, the biathlon, and all those other events they don't understand and totally ignore for all but three weeks every four years.

Face it, these Olympics are little more than a marketing plan to fill space and sell time during the dreary days of February. So, if only to hasten the arrival of the day they're done, and we can move on to March Madness, for God's sake, let the Games begin.

 

[Neith]

Here we agree, and I'll go further: I'm not so sure "modern political systems" are anything but a Ponzi scheme.

As a pan-Nationalist, I believe African ethnic sovreignty should hold regardless, and we should not interfere no matter how our "good intentions" lead us to want to modernize, Christianize, educate, invest, etc.

Africa for Africans!

Yes, I don't think we should have ever interfered there in the first place. But apparently the desire to rule dominant over every other civilisation is an urge that few powerful white governments able to resist. I just feel that now that we screwed up so much (in my view, no matter what way you like at it we did screw things up considerably more than they were originally in Africa, and the Africans are still suffering because of it) we should do something that is actually helpful and genuine. Not so hald assed attempt at charity by handing out cheques which only get given back to us anyway.

 

[Silver Incubus]

Africa = diamonds, that is why we were there. AMoung other things

 

[derek]

Yes, I don't think we should have ever interfered there in the first place. But apparently the desire to rule dominant over every other civilisation is an urge that few powerful white governments able to resist. I just feel that now that we screwed up so much (in my view, no matter what way you like at it we did screw things up considerably more than they were originally in Africa, and the Africans are still suffering because of it) we should do something that is actually helpful and genuine. Not so hald assed attempt at charity by handing out cheques which only get given back to us anyway.

I think its more to do with securing the interests of said white governments than the actual need to dominate.

Plus, infoterror, I'd agree that we meddle too much...but surely there must be some method of interaction with, for example, Africa that we can engage in that helps if they desire it yet avoids meddling?

 

[speed]

Here we agree, and I'll go further: I'm not so sure "modern political systems" are anything but a Ponzi scheme.

As a pan-Nationalist, I believe African ethnic sovreignty should hold regardless, and we should not interfere no matter how our "good intentions" lead us to want to modernize, Christianize, educate, invest, etc.

Africa for Africans!

How about Israel?

 

[Norsemaiden]

How about Israel?

Israel should be expanded and a huge wall should be put around it, and every Jew should stay there and not interfere with the rest of the world and not get any finance from the rest of the world. I don't advocate getting rid of Israel, I think Jews should be protected (from the consequences of their own actions) and quarantined.

 

[Norsemaiden]

Africa = diamonds, that is why we were there. AMoung other things

Oy vey, that's why we're there already! Surely EVERYONE knows that!
http://www.csmonitor.com/2002/0221/p01s03-wome.html

 

[SoundMaster]

...I think Jews should be...quaratined.

Interesting choice of words.

 

[Norsemaiden]

Interesting choice of words.

It's only that they have a bad influence on other nations, it is probably an inappropriate word to have used because all large minorities, not just them, within a nation (who tend to be loyal to their own agenda) are harmful to the society. That is why people should try to keep to their own nations and own national identities.
There must be an arrangement that the Israelis themselves agree is fair and they are happy with. I have a plan of how this could work and I hope Jews would like it very much also - as if I had control over these matters!
Israel should include Gaza and Sinai, up to the canal, as they have the right to that by right of conquest in the 1967 war. They should also have a 100x300 mile slice of Saudi Arabia, including Haql and Maqna. This is uninhabited desert up to Al Jauf. With their superior intelligence, they will easily irrigate this land to be productive.

The Palestianians should get the West Bank, half of Jordan, (half of the population of Jordan is already Palestinian) including 10% of Jerusalem - as a corridor - to the dome. Also, the southern 30 miles of Lebannon, so they have access to the sea, the Golan Heights, and possibly also a slice of Syrian desert.

These new areas are either unstable or uninhabited. The Palestinian Arabs would be happy to have new borders, access to the sea, and the removal of Israeli occupational forces. The Israelis should be happy to feel safe and secure behind a big wall. Western armed forces will police the Arabs if necessary to protect Israel.

 

[derek]

Quarantined is an interesting choice of words, indeed.

Are you implying the full connotations of the word, or only referring to segregation for the sake of peace when you use it?

 

[Norsemaiden]

Quarantined is an interesting choice of words, indeed.

Are you implying the full connotations of the word, or only referring to segregation for the sake of peace when you use it?

Quarantined was the wrong word to have used. I'm trying to put myself in the Jews' shoes. In their position, I would want my own land, living space, and a sense of security. I would want to feel safe and protected for all time, and that to be the end of persecution. I would want to feel equal amongst the nations, as a proper country, and have the freedom to trade and travel without fear. I would want to feel my progeny had a peaceful future, free from threat.