thick strings and tuning/intonation?

[Fragle]

i have a question concerning low tunings, string gauge, and tuning issues.

i was under the impression that with low tunings, the thicker the strings the better. playing wise that's totally fine with me, i like the feel of thick strings, especially for rhythms. you might have to "fight" the guitar a little more to pull of the super fast/complicated stuff, but i kinda like that because it sounds pretty aggressive.

now, i'm using 13-62 strings tuned to B standard on 25.5" scale guitars. for some reason, i'm getting a lot of issues with the low B going in and out of tune when doing open chords. i really have to be super careful with the picking strength to keep if from going out of tune, often tuning the low B slightly lower to compensate for the string going sharp, which naturally leads to problems when doing stuff higher up the neck, as it'll be flat.
i thought that thick strings prevent that kinda stuff, or at least make it less possible to happen.
however, when stringing the same guitar with let's say 12-56 strings the guitar stays in tune much better.
is there such a thing as *too* high string gauge?
also, what gauge are you guys using for B standard?

 

[::XeS::]

I have some trouble too with my schecter c1 elite. I recently changed the bridge with a 13mm one but I had to flip the bridge and put the 6th saddle all way back. This way the intonation it 90% perfect because I get a slighty sharp note at 12th fret....very subtle. When this happens in my opinion there is something related to the construction: if the guitar was builded with the bridge 1 or 2 mm too close to the "neck" and the whole intonation is compromise.
The problem of course happens only with the 6th string. I wonder how can a Les Paul or an Eclipse be intonated with a very low tuning and that short scale

 

[Robert W]

I had problems intonating a Schecter Hellraiser to A standard. Eventually I just got sick of trying to adjust it got an 8 string.

Maybe a 7 string is something you may want to consider if you're going to be playing in B standard all the time.

 

[Fragle]

that's the problem right there....the majority of the material (mainly the leads) is written for a 6string.....some open string and sweeping stuff that's just much more difficult or impossible to do on a 7string.

 

[Jarkko Mattheiszen]

Intonation is a bitch. While my GS Explorer is an awesome instrument, it can't quite handle drop C and thick strings at the moment. Otherwise it's fine, but the intonation on the low C is about 10 cents sharp. Currently I'm using 13-56 strings, but I'm looking at putting together a 13-59 set from separate strings for near-perfect 20lbs tension, replacing the brass nut (it sounds awesome, but needs filing for the bigger strings, and I'd rather keep it original just in case) with a Black Tusq and changing the 10mm tune-o-matic bridge to a 13mm Graph Tech Resomax to see if it'll help.

 

[Erik Monsonis]

I had lots of intonation problems before, but I just tuned my axe down to Drop A (24,75") and put some d'addario baritone strings (13-70 i think) and it's awesome now, zero intonation issues...

 

[::XeS::]

Anyway if the intonation is a little sharp at 12th fret.....but very little... I think it's not a big issue because it's rare that I play something in the 6th string from 12th to 22th...

 

[Robert W]

that's the problem right there....the majority of the material (mainly the leads) is written for a 6string.....some open string and sweeping stuff that's just much more difficult or impossible to do on a 7string.

If the majority of your material is written in E standard, then why are you tuning to B standard to play it?

I seldom, if ever, use the B and F strings on my 8 for leads. Not that I'm really good at them, but the higher 6 strings seem to be more than enough for me solo-wise.

The reason I went to an 8 was due to the fact that I couldn't find an affordable 7 that could handle A standard. The Hellraiser came close, but I ran out of rearward room on the saddle. So instead of blowing more $$$ on 7s, I go an 8. Problem solved.

It would seem that you are in a similar situation. Of course, if you don't want a 7, there are some 6 string baritones out there that should do the trick for you.

Agile,
http://www.rondomusic.com/al2800baritonesilverburst.html
PRS
http://www.prsguitars.com/mushok/index.php

 

[Jtstew91]

I tune my PRS CE 22 to drop A...
After I intonated it, and adjusted the action, it plays fine. I use DR strings, guage 11-50.

 

[Jtstew91]

that's the problem right there....the majority of the material (mainly the leads) is written for a 6string.....some open string and sweeping stuff that's just much more difficult or impossible to do on a 7string.

Impossible to do on a seven string?

How would adding another string negate the ability to play six string parts?

 

[Fragle]

5th string on a 6 tuned to B is a f#, on a 7string it's G. lots of the riffs (especially clean) use the open 5th string together with some chords etc. impossible to do if that string is tuned a half step higher.
i'm also doing a lot of 5string sweeps like the usual a minor etc stuff (you know what i'm talking about), and on a 7string i'd either have to do that on strings 2-6 and use different fingering positions, or do it 5 frets down on the 1-5th strings, and down there you got to stretch the fingers much more. now, imagine (on a 6string tuned to B) some sweep licks starting with an e minor down to b minor with a slide, on a 7 that would be around the 2nd fret, a bitch to play.

i probably should start to look more into baritones, but tons of bands tune their 6 strings to B standard, there's got to be a way to make it intonate properly.

 

[Jtstew91]

Ah ok, I'm not very familiar with extended range guitars.
But theoretically, couldn't you tune the Top 6 strings to B standard, the 7th to relate to that, and intonate it for that tuning?

But you should be able to get it playing properly.
I had my Fender strat tuned to drop F for 6 months or so.
I was using 11-50 strings. (I only use DR.)
Afer I intonated it, and adjusted the action, it played perfectly fine. (Well, fine for a 6 string tuned almost an octave below standard tuning.)

 

[Fragle]

the thing that i'm not getting here is that with 13-62 strings the low B gets whacked out of tune more easily than with 13-56 strings. i always thought thicker strings provided more tuning stability, guess that's not entirely true.

 

[Robert W]

5th string on a 6 tuned to B is a f#, on a 7string it's G. lots of the riffs (especially clean) use the open 5th string together with some chords etc. impossible to do if that string is tuned a half step higher.
i'm also doing a lot of 5string sweeps like the usual a minor etc stuff (you know what i'm talking about), and on a 7string i'd either have to do that on strings 2-6 and use different fingering positions, or do it 5 frets down on the 1-5th strings, and down there you got to stretch the fingers much more. now, imagine (on a 6string tuned to B) some sweep licks starting with an e minor down to b minor with a slide, on a 7 that would be around the 2nd fret, a bitch to play.

i probably should start to look more into baritones, but tons of bands tune their 6 strings to B standard, there's got to be a way to make it intonate properly.

Tom Warrior plays in B standard on a stock Iceman w/o any intonation problems I can hear, and that's a short scale. So yes, you'll be able to eventually get it to work, but it will take some trial and error to find just what you need to do to get it sounding right.

Still, if you want to keep the same string tension as a guitar tuned to E standard, along w/ the same scale B, E, A, D, G, B, E, then a 7 string will solve your problem faster than anything else.

 

[Tommy Gun]

5th string on a 6 tuned to B is a f#.

No. The 2nd string is at F#. The 5th string would be the E. Highest pitched string is your 1st string. Count up from there.

To the OP:
I think it has to be something other than strings. I had 13-60 on my Gibson V for about 8 years, tuned to B. No issues except that when I went back to lighter strings for E, I had to install a new tune-o-matic bridge, because the bigger strings had just eaten my original one up, lol.

 

[Loki Laufeyiarson]

5th string on a 6 tuned to B is a f#, on a 7string it's G. lots of the riffs (especially clean) use the open 5th string together with some chords etc. impossible to do if that string is tuned a half step higher.
i'm also doing a lot of 5string sweeps like the usual a minor etc stuff (you know what i'm talking about), and on a 7string i'd either have to do that on strings 2-6 and use different fingering positions, or do it 5 frets down on the 1-5th strings, and down there you got to stretch the fingers much more. now, imagine (on a 6string tuned to B) some sweep licks starting with an e minor down to b minor with a slide, on a 7 that would be around the 2nd fret, a bitch to play.

Ah ok, I'm not very familiar with extended range guitars.
But theoretically, couldn't you tune the Top 6 strings to B standard, the 7th to relate to that, and intonate it for that tuning?

Pretty much this... Tune the G-string to a F# and you're ready to go.

If you find that a thinner gauge actually stays in tune better, why not go with that then?

 

[::XeS::]

I had my Fender strat tuned to drop F for 6 months or so.
I was using 11-50 strings. (I only use DR.)

Holy shit...how could you play in drop F or A with 11-50???? 11-50 is good for E standard tuning

 

[Fifth_Horseman]

I discovered exactly the same thing.
Played 13-56 in B standard for years in my old band, and it worked well.

Then recently I wanted to learn some Keith Merrow stuff, put on 13-62 strings and tuned to Drop Bb. Tension is nice and tight, but now I have to tune the 6th string about 10 cent lower to compensate for it going sharp on the picking attack.

 

[Brandon E.]

I have the reverse problem, looser strings go sharper when you pick them hard. I use 12-68 in standard B with absolutely 0 tuning or intonation issues whatsoever. When i use 12-56 however, ain't so stable

 

[Jtstew91]

Holy shit...how could you play in drop F or A with 11-50???? 11-50 is good for E standard tuning

Dude, I honestly don't know. Last semester I got home from class and decided to see how low I could go on my poor strat. (I was recording a death metal rendition of Away in a Manger, a Christmas gift to my brother LOL.) Due to the low tuning and thin strings however, if you bent the strings, it'd pull them out of tune......