Intonation

[AgeOfGeburah]

Really can't get the intonation right for B tuning.

Recently joined a band that uses B tuning so I figured I should intonate it to that. But the f*ing guitar is sharp on every string, even with the screws maxed out.

Maby thicker strings is the soloution?

 

[Wolfeman]

Bigger strings is the answer.

 

[::XeS::]

No bigger strings don't solve the problem.
Actually I'm in C with 12-59's and some strings are sharp too (with the saddles maxed). I don't know how it works for famous guitarist, but I think that for low tuning you need a baritone guitar for a perfect intonation.
The intonation depends also by the neck curvation

 

[motomoto]

I believe heavier gauge will work for B tuning.Depends on the guitar of course, but chances are that it should do the trick.

Then again a baritone will solve all problems +it sounds better in lower tunings

 

[AgeOfGeburah]

I will get thicker strings anyway, these I have right now (54s!) Is only temporary since the assholes at my local music store has stopped selling anything above 54s. I will go back to 59s again and hope that atleast bring it closer to what I want (Currently like 25cents off on some strings).

Won't buying a Baritone guitar make people think I'm compensating for a small penis?

j/k

Thanks for the answers guys, just really wanted to know if string gauges affect the intonation, which I guess it does in someways.

 

[Wolfeman]

I play in Dropped C and if I don't use a custom set of strings (my low E string is a bass string) then I can't hit correct intonation.
Changing strings does work, you just have to get the right size. There is actually math behind it.

Or buy a new bridge. I bought one for my baritone that has extended adjustment saddles... It was the only thing that would work for it.

And in addition to what was said before about the truss adjustment, bridge height also affects intonation. Just a thought.

 

[slashvanyoung]

Is it the Explorer you're having in your sig that you're trying to get properly intonated in B tuning?

If so, then the short 24.75" scale can be quite a bitch. I'm using 7-string (the bottom 6) sets now on my LP for that tuning (.013-.060) and a wound 3rd/d-string is pretty much a must for going so low and still having a balanced set.

 

[SuperD]

Forgive me if I've got this wrong, but are you saying that the string is properly intonated when played open and compared to the octave harmonic, but then fretted notes are sharp?
In that case, I would agree that the string gauge is at least a viable suspect, and I have found with lower tunings using an alternate method for intonating is preferable. Specifically, instead of open and 12th fret, compare 1st fret to 13th fret, or 2nd fret to 14th fret...just sayin,. it might help you get those fretted notes (chords, right?) in tune.

OR

Are you unable to move the saddle far enough to get the octave harmonic intonated? In this case, which is unusual, it would seem the bridge is not far enough back to accomodate the lower tuning at all? Tougher, but the guys are right, heavier gauge will help stabilize fretted notes, but if they're not intonated from the get-go...

 

[2000ContourSVT]

I use 11-48's on my Jackson V and my fretted 12th is a just a hair sharp on the low C string. The saddle won't go any farther away from the neck so I'm going to be putting a .52 on the low C here soon and hopefully that'll take care of the problem.

 

[AgeOfGeburah]

I got it in Tune playing open and the harmonic octave. But the fretted notes are sharp, thats what I meant. Sorry for the muddy explanation.

 

[Harry Hughes]

^Interesting.
The only thing left I can think of that hasn't been mentioned is worn frets. A big cause of intonation problems, but often overlooked.

 

[slayercannibalsuffohead]

On Cannibal Corpses Evisceration Plague DVD, Pat O'Brien talks about what a cunt floyd style bridges are to tune, change strings and intonate. He had to get one of his friends to grind the back of the saddle (of the thickest string) down so it could go further back.

 

[16S]

^ yep totally agree. But i still love floyds. The problem also is on some gtrs when you have saddle as far back as it goes the allen adjustment rod that sticks out the back of the trem goes past the edge of the trem cavity making pull ups impossible.

 

[SuperD]

Hey Age of Geburah, your explanation was excellent, I just wanted to clarify.

So yeah, the string travel down to the fret is pulling it sharp, probably more noticably the nearer to the nut you play...ie the 1st fret is the sharpest. So string travel down to the fret is minimized with proper nut height, truss rod adjustment for very little neck relief (straight as you can get it...), a good fret dressing if required (not usually), so I'm describing a good low action set up. Of course avoid buzzing etc. Also thicker strings resist bending while being fretted, so they help. They sound fricken great too

Okay, here's where I'll try to help with something you haven't already done...at least I hope I help...
Try this...instead of the standard method of intonation (where the 12th fret harmonic is compared to the 12th fret fretted note...)...tune your B string by fretting the second fret, making sure that note (C#) is as 'in tune' as you can get it. It'll be sharp btw. Unfortunately the tuning can 'wiggle' due to finger pressure...do your best... Now check the C# at the 14th fret...move the saddle as necessary (presumably away from the neck, lengthening the 'speaking length' of the string), retune to the second fret note, compare to the 14th fret again...
It takes no more time than the standard procedure, and may yield the desired results...a guitar that at least plays in tune with itself
Or
(wowlongfuckingpostsorry)

You may wish to do this comparing the first fret C to the 13th fret C instead...these will play even sharper, or 3rd fret to 15th...your call.

 

[motomoto]

Interesting method SuperD.I have to try that at some point.

Here is what else you can do.... Try turning the saddles around.I mean the angled bit to look towards the fretboard.You will have a bit more space to ''play'' with the saddles.

 

[Pot]

i´m with super here, i´ve followed this advice before because i feel it´s the best way to do it...
there will always be a compromise: if the guitar is properly set up the only variable will be the pressure of the fingers on the string when intonating, so adjust it compensating that pressure
p.s. reading again the OP, i would worry too much with intonation that b string, since u will not shred any leads on that, so......

 

[MetalSound]

which scale do you use?
25,5" is MUCH easier to get right than 24,75". Our 2nd guitarist has a gibson and it is a pain in the ass to get the correct intonation on it (we´re playing on B as well).
a baritone would be even easier but I hate those things as I don´t have fingers like pencils.

 

[SuperD]

Just re-read the thread and I gotta agree with some sentiments expressed ...namely that Floyds are tough(er) to work with by far, and that longer scale lengths are easier to work with. And for the record I use an Ibanez Edge on my whammy equipped 'tars and they do NOT float as I have blocked them, so they dive only! And 25.5" scale for all...
Just to make sure I wasn't wasting anyones time I intonated a guitar (in B) the traditional way and played the s#!t outta it for a day, and then I used the 2nd fret to 14th method.
So, yeah, it's not a waste of time. The intonation measures more consistently up the fretboard...but more importantly chording in particular is more in tune. Sweeter, if that makes any sense?
I have traditionally only used this method for C and lower tunings, and usually only the wound strings.
But it occurs to me this method would address some of the things that compensated nuts fix (not as well mind you), especially the difficulties with plain G strings being notoriously sharp around the 1st fret...
Sounds like more fun for me, huh?

 

[Wolfeman]

Yeah the compensated nuts only really have an effect on the first few frets, but they are great for that. Only thing is they are designed for standard tunning, it kinda gets slightly screwey when you get into lower tunnings. But I must say, every ESP I've owned with the earvana nut has been so easy to tune and intonate, in any tuning and any string gauge....

 

[SuperD]

^
^ Agree.