This is a bad Porcupine Tree copy?

kinometal

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Feb 12, 2003
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I think this "evolution" is not good for Katatonia, Katatonia is great for the first albums not for the last for my opinion, I dont have songs similar to Teargas, Deadhouse, Relention, Tonights Music, etc, in the sample teaser I dont listen anyone riff mellodic "mark of Katatonia"... I think every album since Viva Emptiness the sound is more "insipid"... im open for another opinions :)
 
Instead of retyping everything I just typed in another thread, I will repost it on here instead.

FlawedCoil82 said:
And just to prove how impossible it is to get people to totally agree on music can be shown right here. Granted, I did not become a fan of Katatonia until THE GREAT COLD DISTANCE but if I would have heard LAST FAIR DEAL GONE DOWN or even VIVA EMPTINESS first, then I guarantee that I would not be here right now. The most important element in any band I listen to is the vocals. If I am not feeling the vocals in a band then the band as a whole loses my attention.

Just one example? Novembre. I think musically, they are even better than Katatonia. However, their vocalist is nowhere near as good a vocalist as Jonas is, thus Katatonia comes out on top. But Jonas just became appealing to me on TGCD. He is now doing something different with his vocals than he did on all their previous albums and it works extremely well. He uses a much more soothing/layered vocal style and uses the melisma techniques more and it made his vocals improve infinitely more than they used to be. After hearing the masterpiece TGCD, I went back and checked out LFDGD hoping to hear these same amazing vocals and they were sadly nowhere to be found. He improved slightly on VE but still nowhere near as amazing as he is today. And for me, from the songs I have heard thus far from NIGHT IS THE NEW DAY, I can safely say that NITND will possibly surpass TGCD but I can guarantee it will easily slaughter anything else that Katatonia has already made previously. In fact it already has just with the 4 songs I have heard.

Five years ago I would have laughed my ass off if someone would have told me that the Cookie Monster vocals band I had heard several years earlier would now be making such beautifully melodic and soothing rock music as they now make today (and actually become one of my top favorite bands with just one album). TGCD blew me away and I couldn't get enough of that material. I am thrilled to hear that they are keeping that overall style and just expanding upon it on NITND. So yes, in my opinion, TGCD and NITND stand alone and far above anything else that Katatonia has ever made before.
Jack

I have one album by Porcupine Tree called IN ABSENTIA. Decent at best. I like "Trains" and "The Sound Of Muzak". But comparing new Katatonia to Porcupine Tree is like comparing gold with rocks. And even if there is some kind of comparison that can be made (outside of them both being "bands"), I would much prefer Katatonia to do this style of music instead of Porcupine Tree. I never care about who does what style first. I only care about who does it the best. :headbang:
Jack
 
Porcupine Tree and Katatonia are both great bands. And they both took me a while to get into. But I don't think you can really compare the two. They both have very different styles. And refering back to the first post, well Katatonia, like most good bands, has changed over time and they're not scared to try to push themselves into different directions.
 
To be honest, I could draw more similarities to Opeth than to Porcupine Tree in regards to the new Katatonia.

Yes, it's less "unique" than their old stuff, but then again, it's also much more accessible.

Many people might not like this comparison, because this is a band that's both loved and hated by the metal community. I'm going to compare this to Tool. Tool is one of the few progressive metal bands that's managed to find the perfect balance between a progressive sound and accessibility. They get tons of radio play, sell out concerts like crazy, yet the music reviewers still hail Lateralus as a masterpiece to this day.

Then, look at Tool's older stuff. Much less radio-play, much less reviewer renown. However, many hardcore Tool fans still love their old stuff, some even saying it's better than Lateralus.

I think Katatonia is moving closer and closer to their "Lateralus". Hell, NITND could be it. There will be many hardcore "old school" Katatonia fans that feel that the new sound is selling out, or a betrayal to their old sound. However, it seems like they still put a lot of thought, creativity, and craft into their music, and THAT is what's important. I'm sure the old fans will still be able to appreciate their music, but hopefully they'll be able to net a larger audience, please the critics, and most importantly... make an album that can withstand the test of time.
 
Hey, I miss some of the super catchy choruses too, and sometimes I really miss those majestic, haunting leads that Anders plastered all over LFDGD and Tonight's Decision for example.

However: Those things have been replaced by different elements, which are in my opinion just as good! Jonas has never been better, the trip-hop type electronic elements they expand on with each release, and the mellow, beautiful, layered sound on some of the slower songs is to die for. They are also heavier then they were 10 years ago without question regarding the guitar sound and the occassional aggressiveness.

Although the choruses on TGCD (then again Deliberation, My Twin, July ARE catchy as hell) and 'Forsaker' might not be as immediately catchy as I Am Nothing, Tonight's Music, Sweet Nurse, etc, I think the recent vocal melodies have an added sense of melancholy and beauty, especially how they sound, the timbre of Jonas' voice now compared to 10 years ago.

Kind of a strange twist: not quite as catchy but more beautiful, more haunting maybe?

Besides, whether a given fan likes the music or not, the band has to do what is in their hearts, period. Some will like it, some won't, oh well. Personally I have been a Kat fan since 1994 and I likely always will be. I do admit to being surprised by the change in their musical direction sometimes when I first heard some of their releases, but the bottom line is that the underlying melancholy in their music has always been there and still is, although the presentation has morphed greatly over the years.
 
Must be the Creed or 3 Doors Down that made him say that

Trust me, the new Katatonia blows both of those bands out of the water. I put those on my list to show that I love both mainstream rock as well as indie/underground material. I am by no means a "metalhead".

I have to say I agree the most with Metamyr. I am a huge Tool fan and many of Jonas's vocals remind me of Maynard James Keenan's style (or how it used to be). I love to hear beautifully melodic vocals backed by dark, heavy music (which I usually have to find in female fronted bands like Within Temptation, Autumn etc. since most of the male fronted dark bands feel that they have to grunt and growl). I could also see more comparison in A Perfect Circle. But regardless, even though I have been a fan of Tool since "Sober", I still think ÆNIMA and LATERALUS are their only two masterpieces, whereas TGCD and NITND are Katatonia's.

The problem with promoting Katatonia to the mainstream crowd is that (like me), it's hard to imagine how a band could change and evolve so strongly as Katatonia did. Again, their early stuff either bored me to tears or else just repulsed me since I cannot stand grunting/growling type vocals. So when someone on a Flaw forum suggested that I check out the song "My Twin", I was highly skeptical and figured I would be wasting my time. I couldn't believe I was listening to the same band and immediately ordered the album. Now, I am having the same problem trying to promote Katatonia to other people who love depressing (but more mainstream) rock music like Cold and such, because they all expect to hear Cradle Of Filth type nonsense. However, after the few open ones give new Katatonia a listen, they end up being blown away as I was. I would love to see Katatonia get the attention that they deserve, but unfortunately that also seems to signal an end to a band's creativity when they begin to get noticed (such as Lacuna Coil). So it's a double edged sword. But I can certainly see a stronger resemblance between Tool/APC and Katatonia being much more appealing to other Tool/APC fans versus Katatonia and Porcupine Tree.
Jack
 
So is it a bad thing if Katatonia pulls in fans from all sorts of musical interests? While I mainly love many styles of modern rock, I also like some pop, country, folk, blues, classical and orchestral scores, older hip-hop/r&b, celtic, ambient, gregorian chant, industrial, new wave, 80's classics, etc. Good music is good music, I don't care what genre it comes from.
Jack
 
So is it a bad thing if Katatonia pulls in fans from all sorts of musical interests? While I mainly love many styles of modern rock, I also like some pop, country, folk, blues, classical and orchestral scores, older hip-hop/r&b, celtic, ambient, gregorian chant, industrial, new wave, 80's classics, etc. Good music is good music, I don't care what genre it comes from.
Jack

whats about 60s arena pop and crunk core?
 
I am not sure exactly what you mean by 60's arena pop? Music like The Beatles/Monkees? It may have a different name here in the states? :confused: If that's what you mean then sure I like some of it. I can't worship The Beatles like some people do though.

As for crunkcore, I am not a fan of that. As with grunting/growling, I am not the biggest scream fan (I never liked screamo either) so the ones I have heard in that genre were not really that appealing.
Jack
 
I think Katatonia reach a much higher level of emotion and atmosphere than Porcupine Tree do, and therefore rate higher in my mind. PT songs, to me, seem like they exist more as musical experimentation and something to rock out to, rather than something that's meant to have a narrative or emotional journey. The last 2 albums seem more focused on achieving that, but I still don't really feel anything in their music. I just enjoy their songs.
I guess you could say PT push a message along with their music, rather than try to recreate emotions within their music. Despite being pushed as a band that redefine music, they are very much a rock band.
I also think Katatonia do a better job at blending the elements together seamlessly. Probably because Katatonia are a lot more subtle than PT, and pay more attention to the fine details of how various parts of the song run into and/or support eachother.
That and Kata's sound just appeals to me more. Musical tastes is something we will never agree on. I know a lot of people that prefer PT and other music where the elements are much clearer and defined and, well, rock oriented.

Musically I guess they're similar because they both have 'progressive' song structures and merge heavier, rock influenced parts with electronica. But Katatonia have more of a doom metal meets rock and electronic soundscapes thing happening, while PT are pretty much just hard rock and electronica mashed together in long songs with lots of twists and turns.

The similarities pretty much end at "progressive" and "heavy guitars". Porcupine Tree hardly pioneered either of those, and their influences and execution are so different that the comparison is pretty flimsy at best.

it's also worth noting that PT have been becoming gradually heavier and darker. If you really want to make the comparison, I think PT are trying to be more like Katatonia ;)
 
Musically I guess they're similar because they both have 'progressive' song structures and merge heavier, rock influenced parts with electronica. But Katatonia have more of a doom metal meets rock and electronic soundscapes thing happening, while PT are pretty much just hard rock and electronica mashed together in long songs with lots of twists and turns.

Ye ... no.

This thread makes me wonder if these people have even heard much of either band.
 
I find it a bit of an over-the-top comment. Bad PT-copy... I don't fecking care. As long as I like it, who cares what it sounds like. I like all the albums from Discouraged Ones onward. They all have a different place in my musical spectrum. All different, but all intense and melancholic.

I do own PT albums. But I just like In Absentia, Deadwing and Fear of a blank Planet. Not really getting into the new one... and the old stuff just passes through me without sticking much. But I have so much different music that I don't miss it either. Katatonia I would miss if it wasn't there...
 
Ye ... no.

This thread makes me wonder if these people have even heard much of either band.
lol, i'm trying to be as general as I possibly can, since I don't think they sound similar when you go deeper into how their sound works. Others tossed around the electronica idea so I just went with that. Lets just say 'atmospheric elements' then, it fits slightly better