This makes me wanna kill people
- Thread starter Jevil
- Start date
Erkan
mr-walker.bandcamp
I feel that because humans are sentient and thus able to question why they do the things they do, they're capable of going far beyond their basic instincts of mate/feed/die (music, curing cancer, sheep-shearing contests, etc.).
And how do we know animals are not sentient? You sound like one of those old capitalists who are trying to bring down the internet because it's dangerous for us young people
I can imagine it... a big fat belly, grey hair with a bit of baldness and the head is oily and shiny... thick grey eyebrows and a nice double - or make that triple - chin! 
Talking about how much more valuable humans are than animals... tsk tsk tsk!Edit: I also don't understand why it matters if we as humans can go "far beyond their basic instincts of mate/feed/die". Why would this be any relevant at all? Is this what evolution wanted us to do? All life on this planet is equal, that's how I see it. No matter if one life form has the ability to make satanic demon worshipping music while the other just sits around eating grass... what the fuck does it matter?
abyssofdreams
knows what you think.
Oy, here comes the philosophical debate - there's a limit to how far I really want to pursue this because I usually stop caring soon after these start, but I feel that because humans are sentient and thus able to question why they do the things they do, they're capable of going far beyond their basic instincts of mate/feed/die (music, curing cancer, sheep-shearing contests, etc.
Thanks for the insight.
So you put yourself above other animals? Just because evolution favoured some primates with a higher developed brain? Is that your argument? So we are (more) sentient, so we are allowed to kill other animals?
So, what about humans who are mentally deranged? Are less sentient? Or maybe aren't self-aware? Should we kill them too?
Animals suffer. We are all animals, just have taken a different path. I don't think that gives us the right to judge over other life which is capable of suffering.
I have a couple of more arguments but since you "usually stop caring soon after these start" I won't bother at this point
You're asking for where I draw the line, and yes, humans > all other animals IMO (so no, we shouldn't kill humans that are impaired, as if you really needed me to say that). That doesn't mean I don't value the lives of animals (except insects, sorry), but what can I say, I really like meat, so to me, that, combined with the reasons I mentioned above, is valid reason for those animals to die. That's how I feel, you feel differently, but I'd hope we could realize that it's unlikely one of us will change the other's mind.
Ermz
¯\(°_o)/¯
Besides, what does sentience gain us? We are still driven entirely by the primal instincts to eat, sleep, fuck, socialize, avoid dying and reproduce. Everything else is just filling in time. Just because at some point in the evolutionary process, the state of affairs favored us enough to way unbalance our position in the natural order doesn't make us any more inherently worthy of being alive. We have been cruising easy for a long time, and it's understandable that people in sheltered, western societies take this for granted and gain some sort of superiority complex. So few of us live in the real world anymore.
Erkan
mr-walker.bandcamp
Well, that is something we can agree upon so we might as well just stop then
Just remember... whatever is said in the Off-topic section stays in the Off-topic section! With that I mean that I hope people don't hold grudges against others because of discussions like these, which then might affect their responses to said people when they are asking for help and stuff or want people to rate some shit. I'm not saying any of us are going to do that but I'd just like to throw this out there to anyone who didn't get that this is a music forum primarily
Edit: I was gonna delete what I wrote because I sound so concerned and almost bitter but I'll leave it there anyway. This is not directed to anyone in this thread. All is well! Pure love <3 <3 <3 <3 cheers guys
abyssofdreams
knows what you think.
...speciesism and racism both overlook or underestimate the similarities between the discriminator and those discriminated against....
...it is irrational or morally incorrect to regard animals (which are acknowledged to be sentient beings) as mere objects or property....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speciesism
Fair enough. I just replied to you asking the question what purpose they would have
We can (again) agree to disagree here 
And for the record, I think I know you a bit better now
But at least we're able to recognize those instincts, and the mark of education and being civilized is suppressing them for more socially acceptable qualities. I don't really know what to make of those last two sentences, but if you're implying that "unsheltered" people in developing countries don't eat meat, then I would definitely disagree (granted, they can't eat it nearly as often as we can simply because of availability, but every culture I learned about in my multiple classes as a Geography major seemed to have no problem slaughtering animals for food, and animal husbandry has been around for centuries - if anything, I would nominate that the concept of vegetarianism/veganism has come primarily out of people living in the "sheltered western world" who have the luxury of being able to choose exactly what they eat).
And thank you Erkan btw, I approve
If you say so.
Fair enough. I just replied to you asking the question what purpose they would have
And for the record, I think I know you a bit better now
If you say so.
And for the record, so people don't come away from this thinking I'm a totally heartless monster, most of the time when there's a bee or spider or something in the house I do the whole "empty glass and a sheet of cardboard" trick to capture them and then let 'em out outside (flies and mosquitoes must die, however), I stop for small animals darting across the road, etc. So it's not like I go around passing judgment and killing things left and right! I just happen to really like meat.
So it's not like I go around passing judgment and killing things left and right! I just happen to really like meat.The best way to stop supporting the industry you saw in the initial video is to only buy and eat free range eggs rather than battery hen/caged/farm fresh eggs.
Erkan
mr-walker.bandcamp
I agree on insects and flies Marcus... even though I regard all life as equal, these fucking things are giving me such a hard time to commit to that motto. Just a few days ago, I got THREE of those flying bastards in my eyes. And today when I left my house... I IMMEDIATELY got a fly in my eye so I had to turn back and get infront of the mirror to pick it out and then squash it while swearing like a drunken russian.
Damn things... insects are the only things I can't stand in nature.
Damn things... insects are the only things I can't stand in nature.
I hear ya dude, but I don't mind (in fact, I rather like) bumble bees, for example, because they're kinda goofy and more importantly MIND THEIR OWN FUCKING BUSINESS. Flies and mosquitoes are a fucking plague though, and there are countless more to take the place of each one I snuff out of existence, so yeah, pretty minimal remorse there.
Felix Neumann
Member
Marcus..now I understand it
Although I had to laugh a bit, as I saw, you mentioned me about this organic chicken stuff, I´m really, really shocked about this movie. This nearly broked my heart. I really love animals and I remember holidays with my Family..Julia (my little sister) and me had kind of friendship with such small yellow chicks..(we even gave em names) and now I see them die like this....makes me sick! This cannot be true 
Felix Neumann
Member
deanbailey
O.C.D Member
This debate has been killing me because I stopped eating meat but I don't want to call myself a vegetarian or pescatarian just because of how close minded they can be even though their points are valid, and vice versa.
Humans share the planet with other animals, not rule it. That In my opinion is the bottom line and is often forgotten.
We were at one point all the same, but to say you're better now because you're smarter/evolved or have a "personality" shouldn't make you feel superior, it just increases the responsibility you have as another earthling. Like the saying "with great power comes great responsibility".
Your dog or cat has a relationship with you so you think it's as important as maybe your human friend but you won't think twice about fishing, or rabbit/duck season because "there's so many anyway" or "it doesn't know whats happening" or what ever reason.
In the meat eaters defense, they always say "Animals are put on earth for us to eat", technically cows have no natural defense short of farting so you'll almost never see wild cows. That sorta makes you think that maybe they have evolved into just being bred to be eaten.
Then again you get Vege's throwing around "animals are my friends and I don't eat my friends"...but you don't go around buying your friend at a store or calling your friend a pet or picking up your friend because he's cute have you ever thought that maybe some dogs or cats get extremely annoyed when that happens lol.
I would love to sink my teeth into some lasagna, which is my favorite food...or was...
But I now understand both the meat eaters and vege's side of things and feel I have made a logical decision in not eating meat.
Humans share the planet with other animals, not rule it. That In my opinion is the bottom line and is often forgotten.
We were at one point all the same, but to say you're better now because you're smarter/evolved or have a "personality" shouldn't make you feel superior, it just increases the responsibility you have as another earthling. Like the saying "with great power comes great responsibility".
Your dog or cat has a relationship with you so you think it's as important as maybe your human friend but you won't think twice about fishing, or rabbit/duck season because "there's so many anyway" or "it doesn't know whats happening" or what ever reason.
In the meat eaters defense, they always say "Animals are put on earth for us to eat", technically cows have no natural defense short of farting so you'll almost never see wild cows. That sorta makes you think that maybe they have evolved into just being bred to be eaten.
Then again you get Vege's throwing around "animals are my friends and I don't eat my friends"...but you don't go around buying your friend at a store or calling your friend a pet or picking up your friend because he's cute
have you ever thought that maybe some dogs or cats get extremely annoyed when that happens lol.I would love to sink my teeth into some lasagna, which is my favorite food...or was...
But I now understand both the meat eaters and vege's side of things and feel I have made a logical decision in not eating meat.
deanbailey
O.C.D Member
Cyanide_Anima
yooveesevenbeekay
the real tragedy is that we're conditioned to think this is normal. take only what you need, and respectfully and greatfuly preparing and eating the animal that just gave (without much of a choice) its life FOR YOURS and an industry grinding up millions of chicks every day just to throw away because its not AS profitable? we are sick. those chicks could easily be saved and shipped to say, 3rd world countries and feed hundreds of thousands of people. you think they would waste any of those chicks? not likely. im sure even the beaks would serve some purpose. we waste so many (food) resources when (ya, i know beating a dead horse here...) half of the people on this planet cannot even feed themselves.
