Thoughts on elitist "once it's popular it sucks" mentalities in the metal community.

[Palabra de Dios]

I was discussing metal and music in general with a buddy last night after work. The discussion eventually led to the "it" band in metal right now (they have a few topics on this board as well as many on other metal boards around the net): Dragonforce.

So the topic is that I am a bit tired of people asking if I know of this band once they find out I listen to metal. We all know by now that Dragonforce is on Ozzfest, has been featured on MySpace as a "band of the day," signed to Roadrunner, featured in Hot Topic, appeared on MTV-2's Headbanger's Ball, and a slew of other things that have raised immense awareness of the band. Here's where the discussion led, and we eventually agreed on our thoughts here.

It is not necessarily that I believe that once a band becomes supremely popular they suck or that I don't like them (how could I possibly like Maiden, Metallica or Megadeth?). The thing is, I do not want to be associated with people who only receive their news on music from MySpace and MTV-2. These media are fed by labels who are only out to pimp certain bands. Just like movies, TV, and other electronic/sonic/aural/video media, they are run by companies out to make money. Therefore, the media is a pimp-aid to our advertising buddies.

The bottom line is this: there are a slew of power metal bands with tons of originality, variety, and heaviness (i.e. Iron Savior, Kiaus, Hibria) that are not very popular at all, not well known. They are certainly deserving. I don't want to associate with people or even talk to people who are unable or even unwilling to find these bands for themselves. Instead, they sit back and let a music video tell them what to listen to. Lame.

Feel free to add to this your thoughts (not on Dragonforce or any other band in particular) about this mentality that is rampant in metal (we are all elitists, right? JOKE.) and the underground 'scene'...how you interpret it, how you feel about the media's pimping of certain 'deserving' bands leaving quality bands left behind to wilt away.......

 

[Mosquito]

Er...we had this exact conversation on the way to Slough Feg dude. =p

 

[St Enigma]

That's the way the industry works, and there is nothing much to do to change it. Come to think about it, one decent powermetal band like Dragonforce getting "mainsteream" publicity might benefit the whole scene, especially in the USA, where "metal" has become a synonym for hardcore or nu-metal. It may help enlargening the picture of metal music in the eyes of common people, who very often associate metal with satan worshipping, drugs, and anything evil you wish to name.

Sure there are bands that "deserve" the publicity more than the others, but who's going to make the pick but the tycoons with power in the industry. Thy smell only money and money runs the world. The underground metal has a life of it's own in the web these days and is avilable everywhere in the world for those genuinely interested in it.
One or a dozen "mainstream" wonders won't affect the roots of metal world. Metal has survived the nineties grunge and nu-metal flood and developed further despite of the death of MTV's video programs and lack of radio play.

Whe socializing with people who are jumping the hype and getting excited on a "hot" band "everybody" is talking about, I usually either ignore the enthusiasm of the person(s) and try to bring up some more info about the band like their older CDs and my possible experiences in a concert of the band, or if the person(s) show more interest, I may bring up a few similar names to make comparisions.
What else there is to do without going on a metal preacher mode? One can't convert people, they have to experience the joy of discovering themselves to become converted. I can only show the way and leave them be.

My ¢2

 

[jaimek]

It's not because they're popular that they suck; it's what they have to do to maintain that popularity, because all the newfound fans freak out if they branch out at all from the music that made them popular in the first place.

 

[Yippee38]

For me, to a large degree it is these fans who are really just lemmings. They listen to what the media (be it MySpace, or MTV-2) tell them to listen to. They are the cause of the problems with the music scene. The labels know what works, and they work it. The problem is that everybody wants to be "hip", so they listen to what is being pimped right now. They have no real passion for music. Their passion is keeping up with the fads.

 

[biggs0072000]

I'd like to throw in another little tidbit on here, seeing as how I've bitched about this constantly lately in my inner circle of close metalheads.

First and foremost, I fucking love Dragonforce. I becaue a fan through Sonic Firestorm, and love the new album, although I feel the earlier release is superior. Even with the Hot Topic/MTV2/Wal-Mart (who carries IR) boon, I still respect the hell out of this band.

I feel that Dragonforce didn't become mainstream, but the mainstream became Dragonforce.

But, there's a point I'd like to raise in what I fear could befomr the watering down of the music we've all come to know and love for years: The Label Rush.

I don't know how many of you have listen to Celladoor, but their deput is quite decent. Nothing excellent in the eyes of any longtime power metal fan, but pretty good listening nontheless. What I have an issue with is how out of nowhere, after the Dragonforce wave calms down just a tad, Metal Blade signs this band from Nebraska (WTF? An American Power Metal Band that's not Iced Earth? =D), and their owner gets an excutive producer credit on the album. Do you see what I'm hinting at here?

 

[JayKeeley]

For me, to a large degree it is these fans who are really just lemmings. They listen to what the media (be it MySpace, or MTV-2) tell them to listen to. They are the cause of the problems with the music scene. The labels know what works, and they work it. The problem is that everybody wants to be "hip", so they listen to what is being pimped right now. They have no real passion for music. Their passion is keeping up with the fads.

While I agree with you for the most part, it's not as if "true" metal fans are much different. Most metalheads (not all) are into metal for a small timeframe, typically between the ages of 15-25, and then setsail for the sun. They "grow out of it" and that's almost as bad as the 'lemmings' IMO simply because it's all so disingenuous.

With regards to DragonForce, I don't know if genuine metal fans dismiss them simply because of their popularity / fan base etc. I think it's because most see their music as nothing more than average at best. The difference being, a comparison can be drawn against other better power metal bands whereas the "Hot Topic" crowd can't make that same comparison -- it's because they have no benchmark to compare against. To them, DragonForce is the only power metal band that exists.

I don't know how many of you have listen to Celladoor, but their deput is quite decent. Nothing excellent in the eyes of any longtime power metal fan, but pretty good listening nontheless. What I have an issue with is how out of nowhere, after the Dragonforce wave calms down just a tad, Metal Blade signs this band from Nebraska (WTF? An American Power Metal Band that's not Iced Earth? =D), and their owner gets an excutive producer credit on the album. Do you see what I'm hinting at here?

Shouldn't surprise anyone. We can thank Metal Blade for 80% of all derivative metalcore releases. They jump on bandwagons left, right, and center -- and neither do they deny it. They're quite honest about needing to make $$ as a business, and I would like to believe that those $$ are fed back into the label to support underground artists such as Amon Amarth, King Diamond, Bolt Thrower, and Primordial.

 

[Purveyor Of Evil]

I've loved DRAGONFORCE before their breakout and will continue to do so.

 

[booB]

I feel that Lacuna Coil would never have become popular if it weren't for the huge media push behind Evanescence. Likewise, I feel that Cellador would never be gaining so much momentum right now if it weren't for the huge media puch behind Dragonforce.

No offense to any of these bands, but... it's all just music until promotion comes into play. Whatever gets promoted becomes the mainstream by default. Gone are the days when bands would gain popularity by word of mouth.

 

[biggs0072000]

This discussion makes me feel old as hell, and I'm not even of legal drinking age yet.

 

[ashaman7122]

2 thoughts on this post...very cool that Hibria was mentioned up above...cool band (props to Bryan316 for my discovery of this band)...

Secondly, I recently listened to a Dragonforce album to see what the hub-bub was about...holy shit...what a bunch of overcaffeinated crap. I just could not get into it, even after repeated listens. I've got nothing against speedy power metal, but man...where's the passion and the bombast...? The whole album just sounded like it was playing at the wrong speed...whew!

I do think it's cool that power metal (of some kind) is reaching a wider audience...people will hopefully discover other bands...just a shame that the band reaching a wider audience is such a poor representation of the genre.

Rock on!

 

[Theandromedastrain]

Were all just going to have to face it, America will never be a nation that widely listens to metal. The fact that people say that metal is becoming more popular makes me laugh. Metal will never be a thriving music industry in America people, the conquering music in this country is rock/pop and the now ever more popular Screamo (for all the little whiney girls out there who can't handle their boyfriend's breaking up with them).

Regarding Dragonforce, I like them. I saw them on my birthday (may3) in philadelphia and they kicked major ass. i dont care how big they get, they will always be a good metal band to me. and as one of you said before, Mainstream got Dragonforce, not the other way around.

Regarding my personal thoughts on America's music (kind of a part 2): I think that this whole fad with screamo and such is ridiculous. I've heard so much of that type of music that I'm about to scream myself. Bands like Atreyu, Avenged Sevenfold, Senses Fail, and Taking Back Sunday? I've read some of thier lyrics and the gist of all of thier songs is about depression by heartbreak. They hardly ever break out and write lyrics about REAL problems in the world today. Depression&eartbreak has been a problem with citizens of America for years. and all around the world for that matter. Plus, why the need to put tons of makeup on your face and blow A SHITLOAD of money on music videos? I'll tell you why, to propose a vision to America that every teenage girl (and some guys) love to see. It's sick.

Heres what i find in metal though: A community that is strong. A community that has PASSION for their music and not how cool they look. A community that wants to put a change on this world for the better. A community that looks out for each other. And most of all, a community that really care about each other and want to make the best damn music they can, so the bands can share the passion they have with thier fans!
(granted there are black metal bandsthat do have other causes for writing thier music and some of thier fans may want to do destructive things to other human beings specifically stupid Americans : )

 

[biggs0072000]

I figuered I should throw this in for good measure in reguards to the whole PR machine. Dragonforce and Celladoor are both reguarded as "Extreme Power Metal." by their labels and basically anyone else who falls for marketing scemes.

Anyone for some Extreme Jello?

 

[Angrafan]

While I agree with you for the most part, it's not as if "true" metal fans are much different. Most metalheads (not all) are into metal for a small timeframe, typically between the ages of 15-25, and then setsail for the sun. They "grow out of it" and that's almost as bad as the 'lemmings' IMO simply because it's all so disingenuous.

Why would it be disingenuous? You could trully like the genre and grow tired of it..

 

[Angrafan]

2 thoughts on this post...very cool that Hibria was mentioned up above...cool band (props to Bryan316 for my discovery of this band)...

Secondly, I recently listened to a Dragonforce album to see what the hub-bub was about...holy shit...what a bunch of overcaffeinated crap. I just could not get into it, even after repeated listens. I've got nothing against speedy power metal, but man...where's the passion and the bombast...? The whole album just sounded like it was playing at the wrong speed...whew!

I do think it's cool that power metal (of some kind) is reaching a wider audience...people will hopefully discover other bands...just a shame that the band reaching a wider audience is such a poor representation of the genre.

Rock on!

I totally agree!

 

[batmura]

It's not because they're popular that they suck; it's what they have to do to maintain that popularity, because all the newfound fans freak out if they branch out at all from the music that made them popular in the first place.

Which is exactly the case with Evergrey. The band that released MMA and wrote lyrics like "Inside out, Outside in" is very different than the band who did SDT and ISOT. What made them popular certainly wasn't their "mainstream" or "Britney-driven" production. Dig?

 

[Petethedrummer]

I have the cellador album myself, and it's pretty decent....and I see them being mentioned by like 2 or 3 people on this board...but I've not noticed any kind of push/advertising or anything regarding them. Am I just missing it?

 

[JayKeeley]

Why would it be disingenuous? You could trully like the genre and grow tired of it..

Grow tired of metal? Yeah, that would just tell me you weren't really into it to begin with.

 

[JayKeeley]

Were all just going to have to face it, America will never be a nation that widely listens to metal. The fact that people say that metal is becoming more popular makes me laugh.

Interestingly enough, it's a lot more acceptable in the US than it is the UK, the birthplace of metal.

Also, while metal in America will never see the popularity of the 80's again, I do think there has been a strong ressurgence over the last few years but that might be contingent on living either in NY or CA.

Mainstream aside, the underground is simply thriving with creativity.

 

[jaimek]

Which is exactly the case with Evergrey. The band that released MMA and wrote lyrics like "Inside out, Outside in" is very different than the band who did SDT and ISOT. What made them popular certainly wasn't their "mainstream" or "Britney-driven" production. Dig?

I was going to make that very comparison, but decided to let the statement stand on its own. But it's true; every time they release a new CD, there's a nonstop stream of bitching about how it doesn't sound like the person's favorite CD from their discography.