Time Signatures

skuller

skuller

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Feb 25, 2007
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How many of you consciencely use time signature changes in the music you write?

Also, do you just riff to write, or are you consciencely changing key signatures?

Basically, in the music you write, how much attention are you paying to what you are doing? Is your style radical enough to throw other people you may be jamming with, off?

Just curious. I'm sure several of you are paying close attention.
 
The stuff im working on atm, its pretty much straight up 4/4 typicalish metal, then I always like to have a big interlude that is anything but typical 4/4. Ive jumped into the deep end mind...first time trying to program drums and im doing a 10 minute song with such a interlude :oops: I wouldnt really want to bog a whole song down with insane stuff for the sake of it. I still like it when people do that though, big prog fan! :headbang:

I consciencely think "right interlude...." and then write something I cant actually play. I have to learn my own stuff usually, thats a good sign too me!! :)
 
I love finding ways to create "seemless" riffs and drum grooves in 5/4 or even 7. If you can get an odd time signature to groove well it won't sound disjointed but will definitely sound interesting or at least different. If you blend odd-time grooves with sections of 4/4 stuff it can have a nice "push/pull" effect which can make the song breathe.
 
I constantly jam a riff, and then when I start recording it, I notice it needs to be in some very strange time signature. Usually something like 11/8, 17/16, once even 28/16 :zombie:

All the riffs sound like they're straight up, or "normal", but the maths then say otherwise :p

Luckily Cubase handles them with no problems :) That's something of a sore point for Reaper - especially when loop-recording. It does not like non-4/4 stuff at all It breaks recording a little bit, ie. the loops start at a wrong point and it is no longer able to decide the right cutoff points. Instead of one .wav per loop like normal, you just get one huge-ass .wav with everything you recorded.
 
I didn't used to think about it. Most stuff I came up with just ended up being in 4/4 or maybe 12/8 with the rare exception in 5's or 7's.

These days, now that I write alot of drums and other parts at the same time I am alot more conscious of time signatures. Sometimes I decide on a time signature before I write a riff and it forces me to do some wierd things. For instance, a couple of recent things I've done have had passages of 13/16 or even 21/16. Working with new time signatures can be a fun way of challenging yourself. Sometimes I take what is a regular 4/4 riff and chop it up and fit it to an odd time signature in order to give it a more interesting feel.
 
ssharp said:
How many of you consciencely use time signature changes in the music you write?

Also, do you just riff to write, or are you consciencely changing key signatures?

Basically, in the music you write, how much attention are you paying to what you are doing? Is your style radical enough to throw other people you may be jamming with, off?

Just curious. I'm sure several of you are paying close attention.
Click to expand...


Yes. we do mixed meter, 5/4, 7/8 6/4... key signature modulations etc. We write ALL our music down on paper it's just easier for that way, sit there witha keyboard or a guitar and just work out the riffs, figure out what the rhythms are. I pretty much geta pretty solid Idea of what I want to do in my head, then write it down and figure out the most cohesive way of putting it all together.

We really, don't jam. We practice and rehearse...but we have not had a single song written just from the group "jamming" We just don't think like that...it'd be a big waste of time for us.
 
This reminds me of how ALOT of people I have worked with in the past have totally confused polyrhythm or varying note values with odd time signatures. Like when programming click tracks for bands and they say, hey I think this part is in like "19/8 or something" and I go....nope. It's in 4/4.

I always got a kick out of that. "Hey, you're not as tech as you think!" :p
 
I love odd meters! as a musician its just more interesting. im to the point were it feels weird if im playing a straight time riff. But alot of your average listeners dont want to hear odd time shit they want something they can just bang their head to, and most cases thats what a segment in a song needs:headbang:
 
Metalhead28 said:
This reminds me of how ALOT of people I have worked with in the past have totally confused polyrhythm or varying note values with odd time signatures. Like when programming click tracks for bands and they say, hey I think this part is in like "19/8 or something" and I go....nope. It's in 4/4.

I always got a kick out of that. "Hey, you're not as tech as you think!" :p
Click to expand...

thats a good point. there was an interview with the old bass player of meshuggah (chaosphere days) in bass player magazine, where he discussed the fact that the actual time signatures change quite rarely. most of their music is actually in 4/4, with the accents in different parts of the measure as the music flows on. 'all riff' time sig changes, imo, are not as effective as one solid sig with other instruments accenting differences.

ie..
drum:
1 2 1 2 3 1 2 1 2 3 1 2 1 2 3
guitar:
1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3

i like to split up the counts in the measure. thinking in 19/8 or whatever is much to obnoxious for me.
 
I'm always conscious of what I'm doing time signiture/key signiture wise, simply because I'm a nerd. I basically can't play unless I know what it is.
 
Time Signatures are something I've been falling in love with for almost the past year. The more you learn about it, you realize how much you can manipulate time (riffs) thru a lot of different stuff. As stated earlier, even 4/4 can have an "uneven" feel if you have the snare hit on an "and, or "and" "4". (of course, having riffs that compliment the drums hit helps too). One cool way to add even more tension to an odd meter (measure) is also putting in different Tuplet groupings (Triplets, quintuplet, septuplets). As said by others, writing down the music helps a ton. Its good to visually see where you want to go, and also helps with setting up your click (helps when working with a real drummer, too). A good drummer or a good programmed beat is the "glue" to help things flow. Also, listening to bands that use irrational time a lot will help you get the ear for it (Spiral Architect, Cynic, Martyr, Psyopus, Planet X, etc..)

With all that said, YES, I'm always experimenting with odd meters and seeing how I can make them mold together.
 
I'm an odd-time junkie. My last band was musically driven by my and little of what we did was in 4/4. I naturally play in odd time sigs. All the time that I spent playing to a metronome has me thinking in terms of patterns and time so instead of hearing in my head while I play "1-2-3-4" I hear "1-1-1-1-1-1-1". So a 7 time is as easy to play as an 11 that alternates with a 5 every other measure. This effects my writing in a huge way because I don't play lots of 4 patterns so my music doesn't fit easily into 4. It always messed up all the other bands that I was in because they couldn't follow something other than 4. The last band got used to me bringing in charts that outlined all the changes or they couldn't follow me when the progression goes: 7,7,11,5,9 - repeat. My key changes are almost as often. I was given the lyrics for a ballad-y song that most people would have turned into a "3 minute 4 chord strummer" but I wrote a 6:30 piece with 7 time sigs and 3 key changes that became one of our most liked songs - go figure! But then I hum along to Spiral Architect too.

... yeah I'm not right in the head.
 
I have a question...Im trying to program drums for this riff and I cannot get the fucker down....its just 4/4, 4/4, 4/4, 2/4 for the first bit. Thing thats fucking me over is the accent on the beginning of each bar has a push and I dont know what to do with a metronome, because I cant keep in time with a straight 4/4 etc.
 
Well... it's actually 7/4 as I edited above, I'm *that* stupid... but 9/8 and 18/16 "could" be different in as much as 9/8 has this triple time feel to it... it's like a 3/4 that would be played using triplets... 18/16 could be anything you want... but then again so can 9/8 so fuck what I'm saying...
 
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