Time Signatures

[Jaymz]

Yes! It has worked! Wooo, ive been cracking my brains over this for a while I can sleep now!!

 

[the_drip]

thats a good point. there was an interview with the old bass player of meshuggah (chaosphere days) in bass player magazine, where he discussed the fact that the actual time signatures change quite rarely. most of their music is actually in 4/4, with the accents in different parts of the measure as the music flows on. 'all riff' time sig changes, imo, are not as effective as one solid sig with other instruments accenting differences.

ie..
drum:
1 2 1 2 3 1 2 1 2 3 1 2 1 2 3
guitar:
1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3

i like to split up the counts in the measure. thinking in 19/8 or whatever is much to obnoxious for me.

syncopation is a wonderful thing.

 

[AudioPhile777]

I'm a big fan of 3/4 and 6/8...

 

[JBroll]

I don't 'consciously' use them. They happen. Not the most helpful for artificially writing in odd signatures, but with enough listening to intricate stuff it should come naturally if you don't try to lock yourself into 4/4 all of the time.

Jeff

 

[Suicide_As_Alibi]

I don't 'consciously' use them. They happen.

^This^ - I've got no musical knowledge at all really, I just write stuff however it comes out. It's not until I get into the practise room that I know if it's weird or not, when my drummer turns a bit pale and breaks it all down for me

If you can get an odd time signature to groove well it won't sound disjointed but will definitely sound interesting or at least different

Soundgarden were annoyingly good at that - I still get tripped up every time I listen to 'Outshined'

Steve

 

[Aaron Smith]

I don't 'consciously' use them

Totally the same with me. I do consciously try to write riffs that don't fit in a nice pretty little 4/4 box, or at least sound like they don't, but what I mean is that it's just done by ear and by feel...I don't go into it with some kind of pre-planned time signature or anything. I do also really love "turning the beat around"- the whole concept is just really exciting to me, because even though you're physically still playing the exact same riff, it has an entirely different vibe. There is TONS of room to make some really awesome transitions in and out of parts like that, too. Listen to the song "Needle" off the latest Chimaira record, and get the main first verse riff in your head. Then go to the second verse, and listen to how it sits in relation to the measure. I LOVE the transition into that second verse too, how Andols puts that fill in there. If you imagine the riff playing through his fill, it still lines up perfectly, it's just that the measure starts later. Then after a couple cycles of riff, they force the riff back on to the "original" rhythm. Don't even try to tell me that it's not entirely awesome!

 

[STINNETT]

...I do also really love "turning the beat around"- ......

So you're a big Miami Sound Machine fan?

sorry, I had to say it.

 

[xmidihcx]

This reminds me of how ALOT of people I have worked with in the past have totally confused polyrhythm or varying note values with odd time signatures. Like when programming click tracks for bands and they say, hey I think this part is in like "19/8 or something" and I go....nope. It's in 4/4.

I always got a kick out of that. "Hey, you're not as tech as you think!"

lmao, those type of riffs are sick when one guy thinks hes in 19/8 lol

 

[Dushan S]

Here (Balkans) some "unusual" beats (at least for westerners) are quite usual. 7/8, 9/8, 11/8 it can be all heard in ethnic music, so I have we have grown up to take it as "normal". Key is for me if something is a "trick", just a beat manipulation, adding of beats or beat groups on normal 4/4 beat, or mixing 2, 3, or 4 groups (Like DT do for instance) to have uneven beat, or if there is continuous feel in song and melody that goes with beat in natural way... "Echo" from "Surfing With the Alien" (Satriani) comes to my mind as first example. It is 5/4 but it is natural sounding and melody is flowing in a nice way. I don't like when there is intentional use of unusual time signatures just for the sake of it.

 

[Jaymz]

The song that im doing now has quite a few changes, one of the breakdown riffs is in 11/8 :Smokin:

 

[sparkyness]

"Echo" from "Surfing With the Alien" (Satriani) comes to my mind as first example. It is 5/4 but it is natural sounding and melody is flowing in a nice way. I don't like when there is intentional use of unusual time signatures just for the sake of it.

Good call. I was 12 or 13 when that album came out and my bass playing was very much in its infancy then and I taught myself to play in 5/4 to "Echo". To this day, when someone mentions 5/4 the first thing I think of is that song (or the theme from Mission Impossible).

 

[Dushan S]

The song that im doing now has quite a few changes, one of the breakdown riffs is in 11/8 :Smokin:

Well, LoL, it is small case of synchronicity There is a bit old demo for one of my songs on myspace page, it is in 11/8. But this one is based on 11/8 melodically to, in the similar way ethnic music here is made, so it is not just riff.

Good call. I was 12 or 13 when that album came out and my bass playing was very much in its infancy then and I taught myself to play in 5/4 to "Echo". To this day, when someone mentions 5/4 the first thing I think of is that song (or the theme from Mission Impossible).

I think Echo is one of the rare examples of well thought out song that is using unusual time signature and is not so much "forced"... Very good bassline! And yes, Mission Impossible theme is a good example also!

 

[Jaymz]

Well, LoL, it is small case of synchronicity There is a bit old demo for one of my songs on myspace page, it is in 11/8. But this one is based on 11/8 melodically to, in the similar way ethnic music here is made, so it is not just riff.

Cool, mines just a riff Only found out its time sig a few days back, even though ive had it for a while now. Hope you dont think im being cocky

 

[Dushan S]

Why would I think you're cocky? Do what you like and feel, it is even better if it just came out naturally for you instead of intentionally constructing unusual time signature riff.
Cheers!

 

[Jaymz]

Why would I think you're cocky? Do what you like and feel, it is even better if it just came out naturally for you instead of intentionally constructing unusual time signature riff.
Cheers!

Ahh its nothing you said its just usually people ive talked to in the past (not on this forum) seem to think its being "cocky" talking about odd time sigs. "OHHhhhh 11/8/ reallllllly?!!" Ya know the type Nothing on you dude Its cool

 

[Nebulous]

Here (Balkans) some "unusual" beats (at least for westerners) are quite usual. 7/8, 9/8, 11/8 it can be all heard in ethnic music, so I have we have grown up to take it as "normal". Key is for me if something is a "trick", just a beat manipulation, adding of beats or beat groups on normal 4/4 beat, or mixing 2, 3, or 4 groups (Like DT do for instance) to have uneven beat, or if there is continuous feel in song and melody that goes with beat in natural way... "Echo" from "Surfing With the Alien" (Satriani) comes to my mind as first example. It is 5/4 but it is natural sounding and melody is flowing in a nice way. I don't like when there is intentional use of unusual time signatures just for the sake of it.

Haha tell me about it! i play in a slavic folk band (Slovak/ Serb/ Cro/ Bosnian) band and there are times when we go to learn a song and our drummer or keyboardist, or even me when I feel like causing a stir, say "hang, on what beat/ rhythm is that?" and we have to spend the next 15 minutes trying to figure it out haha.

 

[greyskull]

wheres acle?

 

[xmidihcx]

I'm an odd-time junkie. My last band was musically driven by my and little of what we did was in 4/4. I naturally play in odd time sigs. All the time that I spent playing to a metronome has me thinking in terms of patterns and time so instead of hearing in my head while I play "1-2-3-4" I hear "1-1-1-1-1-1-1". So a 7 time is as easy to play as an 11 that alternates with a 5 every other measure. This effects my writing in a huge way because I don't play lots of 4 patterns so my music doesn't fit easily into 4. It always messed up all the other bands that I was in because they couldn't follow something other than 4. The last band got used to me bringing in charts that outlined all the changes or they couldn't follow me when the progression goes: 7,7,11,5,9 - repeat. My key changes are almost as often. I was given the lyrics for a ballad-y song that most people would have turned into a "3 minute 4 chord strummer" but I wrote a 6:30 piece with 7 time sigs and 3 key changes that became one of our most liked songs - go figure! But then I hum along to Spiral Architect too.

... yeah I'm not right in the head.

confessions of an odd-time junkie! hehe great reply dude very insightful

 

[Dushan S]

Haha tell me about it! i play in a slavic folk band (Slovak/ Serb/ Cro/ Bosnian) band and there are times when we go to learn a song and our drummer or keyboardist, or even me when I feel like causing a stir, say "hang, on what beat/ rhythm is that?" and we have to spend the next 15 minutes trying to figure it out haha.

Lol you really have nice mixture of people in band Anything from you I could listen to?

 

[James Murphy]

If it works... don't think about it too much... Time signatures are overrated

well if you're going to have time sigs other than just 4/4 and you plan to record to a click and edit to a grid in a DAW it would be smart to think about them and enter them properly. makes life much easier to know them if and have your grid reflect their presence.