Tracking drums for my album, I need to vent

[Erkan]

I'm starting this post with a biiiiiiig looooong drawn out sigh. I'm so tired. Exhausted really. I've been tracking vox for "that" black metal dude's project today and once that was done and he went home, I started tracking drums for my album instead. Well actually I had started a bit yesterday so with today's progress I have tracked about 50% of the drums for the album.

Here is the thing though. No matter how tight I play, I know I will still need to go in and edit pretty much every hit later anyway. I'm aiming for a really modern and "produced" mix and to get that I'll need to quantize the drums in generous amounts. This is pretty exhausting considering I'm both the "studio tech guy" AND the drummer... at the same time. SAME TIME. It's so frustrating and exhausting. It's actually so tiresome, it made me wonder why I'm still a drummer. Or considering myself a drummer at least.

In 2009 I started to notice that my musical strength was shifting away from drums and shifting more into song writing. Or well, it wasn't really shifting AWAY from the drums but rather my song writing skills were growing up on par with my drumming, and exceeding it (by now). I seem to have gotten much better at guitar now as well considering people are commenting on my tightness and stuff rather often (not to brag, but I really appreciate it!). This really makes me wonder why I still keep a drumkit and go through all this hassle... I don't even know if the end result will be better than if I had just bought a good drum sample library and programmed the damn thing. My drumming is probably not gonna sound as good sound quality-wise as opposed to programmed drums but it might sound "good" in other aspects such as the human feel and so on.

Man, I don't know, I'm rather jealous at you all who just program drums and record some guitars and post the song online. For me to do that, I have to make scratch tracks and shit, then learn the song on not only guitar but drums too, then go set up the mics and stuff, then track it, then edit it, THEN I can mix it and post it online. It takes forever. It feels kind of scary to consider selling the drums and switching to guitar and song writing "full time" but it also seems more right at the moment. Music is more to me than just "metal drumming". I want to write kick ass songs and express feelings and tell stories. I can't really do that just by smacking away 32nd notes at 240 BPM (not that I can do it, but it used to be one of my main goals in music/drumming).

Did anyone bother reading this far? If you did, I thank you for showing interest in my progress with the album I will of course stick with real drums since I have started on it and I hope I'm wrong about "is it worth it?" and all that shit. Maybe the end result will become so awesome that I'll remember why I'm still drumming. Time will tell... oh god I'm tired. I think I'll go to bed soon.

What do you think?



P.S remember the post I made once when I said I was considering quitting music altogether? Well gladly I have steered the course of my life into something that can cope better with work and music at the same time so that's not an issue anymore. This post is not a "whine whine, I'm quitting music!", it's actually the opposite. I'm thinking of my musical future and what would be best for me to do to take it even further. Sacrifices need to be made in order to turn it into something bigger and better. The thought of me playing guitar live though... haha, that's a funny one! Never done that.

 

[Line666]

Presumably for your own project sooner or later you're going to want to get a band together and play some gigs?

So maybe it makes sense to choose one instrument or the other at some point. I like to keep everything in my domain as well, but sooner or later you're going to need the help of other people to get things moving anyway, so maybe shifting over to guitar makes sense in the long run?

 

[kramer1309]

I think its good that you found another aspect of music that helps you express yourself.
I guess if I'd say don't sell the drums, who knows, this could be just a phase? Also, with your songwriting skills getting better and better, you could start getting creative with the drums as well.
Hope you chose the path for you.

 

[iamandy]

Man.. just stick in, the end product will be worth it! imo..

if i could, i'd track my bands stuff with real drums, and not use programmed ones.. but we can't just yet! which sucks.

But.. yeah. Stick at it mate, i think it'll be worth it in the end!

 

[Cyanide_Anima]

Yeah dude, stick to it. It'll totally be worth it in the end! Pace yourself, ya don't have to pound it out super fast. If ya get too stressed, take a break, smoke a bowla.

 

[lolzgreg]

Don't lose the drums. Why do you need a sample library? You made so many great samples that you're set. What I think you should do is get to someone's house who has a electronic kit, play on it, look at the result recorded on the computer VIA MIDI, and learn to program the way you play by studying the MIDI. This way you can have your sound without sacrificing feel.

 

[Erkan]

Yeah dudes, as I said already in the post; I will be sticking to real drums for this album since that was my initial plan. It's just that I'm too much of a perfectionist asshole and listening to the unedited raw drumtracks makes me go "eeeew" at my own performance even though it felt good while playing it (as in it felt as if it was pretty tight and had a lot of power). All that "awesomness" seems to be lost once I listen back on the tracks but I know I've felt this way before as well and then once I edited and started mixing the drums, the awesomness kicked back in and it was totally worth it.

I'm gonna go back there today and do some more tracking I think. Currently working on the song "Hohiho118BPM" lol. It's a PITA!

 

[Nebulous]

I would much rather listen to the effort and character of a good drummer than the "perfection" of programmed drums dude, don't give up on them.

Even in song writing, structure and flow I believe that drums are one of the most important aspects and that real drums will give the strongest backup to the rest of the instruments.

 

[StefTD]

If I were you I would stick to the drums, I would love to play the drums, but I really suck at it, and at programming drums, too.
A friend of mine (he's 19) writes his stuff, sings, plays guitar, bass, keys, drums and trumpet and if I were as talented as him or as you
I would try to stick to all the instruments.

 

[crillemannen]

Sätt dig på ett plan och åk ner till gbg så ska jag spela in dig istället

 

[JeffTD]

You could always outsource the editing .

 

[Jarkko Mattheiszen]

Man, I don't know, I'm rather jealous at you all who just program drums and record some guitars and post the song online. For me to do that, I have to make scratch tracks and shit, then learn the song on not only guitar but drums too, then go set up the mics and stuff, then track it, then edit it, THEN I can mix it and post it online. It takes forever.

Wait, you've got the possibility to record an actual drummer and an actual, real-life instrument for your own projects pretty much whenever you want to, and you're jealous to people who have to fiddle around with virtual instruments or just don't bother learning the craft? I mean, I do like some of the results people are getting with drum sample libraries and by no means do I say it's wrong to use them in any way, but in the end, it's just clicking around and using samples someone else recorded. I often do it for my own stuff, too, because it's so convenient, but it's nothing like actually recording an artist and his/her instrument. After all, that's one of the main things that makes a good AE, in my opinion. Not placing samples on the grid, but knowing how to use a mic to record an instrument.

 

[Soundlurker]

Sätt dig på ett plan och åk ner till gbg så ska jag spela in dig istället

Ditt inlägg ser ut som du nått slumpmässigt på tangentbordet om du antar att det var på engelska

Hurra för online översättningar

 

[Sickan]

Ditt inlägg ser ut som du nått slumpmässigt på tangentbordet om du antar att det var på engelska

Hurra för online översättningar

Hahah

Hang in there Erkis<3

 

[smy1]

I say: screw the drums and start programming (or go with a hybrid of programming kick/snare/toms and playing cymbals and hats). I am not a drummer at all, but really, my favorite drums ever were those that my old drummer programmed for me.

 

[Charlie E.]

lol I went the opposite direction as you.

I'm a guitarist/engineer who is taking songwriting so serious that I write out complete drums patterns that properly enhance the song, thus I decided to get an actual drumset and play for real which I just did 2 days ago

But yea quantizing drums is a pain in the ass but noone said getting good results should be easy

 

[Erkan]

Sätt dig på ett plan och åk ner till gbg så ska jag spela in dig istället

Ooh det hade varit awesome men ack pengar vet du.. har inte så mycket av det just nu men förhoppningsvis snart! Dock spelar jag in mig själv för jag har ju bara 3 låtar kvar nu.

Welcome to the club.

been working on ten songs for 4 years.

Crap, that's a long time. I've been working 14 months on these now, although it's been a bit on and off until now.

Wait, you've got the possibility to record an actual drummer and an actual, real-life instrument for your own projects pretty much whenever you want to, and you're jealous to people who have to fiddle around with virtual instruments or just don't bother learning the craft? I mean, I do like some of the results people are getting with drum sample libraries and by no means do I say it's wrong to use them in any way, but in the end, it's just clicking around and using samples someone else recorded. I often do it for my own stuff, too, because it's so convenient, but it's nothing like actually recording an artist and his/her instrument. After all, that's one of the main things that makes a good AE, in my opinion. Not placing samples on the grid, but knowing how to use a mic to record an instrument.

I hear ya but I think you missed the fact that I don't have "a" drummer to record - I record myself. That's the tricky thing, it is very straining to produce yourself. I'm a perfectionist asshole so I track a part 50 times if necessary. As soon as a hit is a little bit off, I stop and re-record the whole part even though I know I can edit it later. This doesn't mean that everything is super tight though and I will still need to edit pretty much everything later. It's just that I can't continue unless "it felt good" during tracking. Man... I hope this behaviour pays off later.

Hahah

Hang in there Erkis<3

Thanks buddy, means a lot. That's what I'm telling myself all the time! I just have to hang in there and track this shit and then use Adam's awesome Slip Editing in REAPER to edit the drums and then I'm all set for tracking guitars which should be MUCH easier since I find playing guitar so much easier than playing drums.

lol I went the opposite direction as you.

I'm a guitarist/engineer who is taking songwriting so serious that I write out complete drums patterns that properly enhance the song, thus I decided to get an actual drumset and play for real which I just did 2 days ago

But yea quantizing drums is a pain in the ass but noone said getting good results should be easy

Wow that's a really cool thing to do Charlie. Have you done anything with your drumkit yet? Recording with real drums means that:

- You have to check the drum tuning between songs and tune if necessary
- You have to have fresh drum heads and spend (a lot!) of money on that
- You have to buy drumsticks often (if you break them in a couple of hours like I do )
- Tuning a drum isn't as easy as tuning a guitar
- You have to spend days or weeks practising songs on the drums before you attempt to record
- You have to hit consistently and hard to get a good sound
- You'll have to have a set of mics, set them up and be damn sure not to alter their positions during the recording process
- You'll have to edit the drums in most cases regardless if you played tight or not (that is if you want a very "modern metal"/quantized drum sound)
- The list goes on...

That's why I am so tempted by switching to programmed drums in the future. NONE of all the hassle I just mentioned exists with programmed drums. All you've gotta do is program them like they would've been played by a drummer and that is of course no problem for me. It's just that I get this really cozy feeling by just thinking about the fact that I can sit at home and program drums and track guitars whenever I feel like it and make kick ass songs. "Cloudkicker" has one of the best programmed drums I've come across in terms of feeling but unfortunately he used DFH on his early stuff and that sound is just digustingly worn out by now


Ugh... wow, look at me, I really sound like I'm trying to persuade myself and everyone else to start programming drums instead of recording them hah, that's pathetic! No sir, programming drums is tempting but I have already begun the tracking and I will finish it, I will edit it, I will mix it to the point where I have a very nice smacking modern sound. Hell yeah!

3 of 11 songs remaining to track now. Then I can look forward to loooooong hours of editing Man, I can't wait until I get to the vox, that's gonna be awesome!

 

[Erkan]

By the way! Thank you guys for letting me vent in this thread, it's really nice <3

This forum is definately getting creds on my album

 

[Charlie E.]

Yes I have mics and I've engineered and produced drums before. Of course it will be a little different recording myself

You know I wonder... why don't you just invest in an electronic kit and record everything midi then simply quantize or move hits around if you get new ideas as you go along.
That's what I did for my latest project. I'd record my drummer e-kit style, comp and quantize, then give him the final demo to practice with.

It would give you a chance to actually play and be creative without the hassle of tuning drums, playing extremely precise, or micing drums etc.

You could also simply record samples of your kit and blend that in as well

 

[Erkan]

Exactly Charlie! An e-kit is very good for those purposes and I wouldn't rule out the possibility of me getting a kit in the future. Money is kinda tight right now though so I won't have any option for that now but yeah... it sure would make things easier in the future. I know a lot of bands simply record via an e-kit and just blend in their preferred samples to create their own kit, all without the hassle of tuning, micing, extensive editing and yada yada.

Good thought Maybe if this album turns out to be good and brings in some cash, I'd invest in an e-kit for further creation!