Tracking drums for my album, I need to vent

[Sickan]

Det kanske inte är en tröst, men när du väl har spelat in allt, redigerat alla tagningar och börjat få till en mix, kommer du garanterat tycka att det har varit värt mödan.
Själv har jag fastnat i en period där jag knappt kan göra någonting (inte bara gällande musik...), pga lite personligt piss. Längtar tills jag har redit ut min skit, jag vet att jag kommer ha utvecklats när jag har gjort det.

Btw, langa lite råa trummspår (och DI's) näru är klar! (Jag vill öva på att kvantisera jag med!)

 

[Morgan C]

At least you're such a ridiculously good drummer that you can probably just set the editing to automatically snap to the nearest grid note, then fix up any mistakes, instead of editing each note (assuming Reaper can do this..?). If you were an awful drummer trying to make yourself sound good because you spend all your time producing instead of playing drums (*cough* me *cough*), its a lot harder ;p

GL man and I cannot wait for the end result.

 

[Soundlurker]

Det kanske inte är en tröst, men när du väl har spelat in allt, redigerat alla tagningar och börjat få till en mix, kommer du garanterat tycka att det har varit värt mödan.
Själv har jag fastnat i en period där jag knappt kan göra någonting (inte bara gällande musik...), pga lite personligt piss. Längtar tills jag har redit ut min skit, jag vet att jag kommer ha utvecklats när jag har gjort det.

Btw, langa lite råa trummspår (och DI's) näru är klar! (Jag vill öva på att kvantisera jag med!)

"It may not be a consolation, but once you've recorded everything, all the editing takes and started to get into a mix, you're guaranteed to find it has been worth the effort.
I myself have been stuck in a period where I can barely do anything (not just the current music ...), due to some personal piss. Long until I have discredited out my shit, I know I will have evolved as I have done it."



Seriously though, I think you should have an easier workflow to reduce frustration. If you've nailed most of the song, don't do it all over. Instead record the missing parts.

 

[Metaltastic]

Probably not what you wanna hear Erkan, but this thread makes me so so so so happy I don't play drums

 

[Russtopher]

You're just being a hard ass perfectionist on yourself, which is fine

Being a drummer who attempts to hack away at guitar, I LOVE being able to have real drums on my stuff. Granted, it's not technical metal in any way, shape or form, there's no need for crazy double kick, it's mostly groove-oriented rock. But I totally get what you mean about setting up, re-tracking parts over and over to get them right, etc. I'd rather do that, than edit it later on and run the risk of it not sounding the way I wanted it to *exactly*.

On my last project, I had my friend play drums on everything because I wanted the crazy fast technical stuff, which he pulled off without a hitch. After it was all said and done, I realized how bummed I was that I hadn't played drums on anything and was constantly hearing stuff well after the fact and was saying "well I would have played that differently" etc etc There have been a few things I've had to do quickly and didn't get time to practice and mic up the kit, so I went with programmed drums and later on regretted it every time.

Long story short, just suck it up and crank it out, man You're one of the lucky few on the board who can nail live drums, which gives you a huge leg up vs. those who have to rely on programmed drums for everything. Don't stop pushing yourself, enjoy it, and have fun!!!

 

[Erkan]

Det kanske inte är en tröst, men när du väl har spelat in allt, redigerat alla tagningar och börjat få till en mix, kommer du garanterat tycka att det har varit värt mödan.
Själv har jag fastnat i en period där jag knappt kan göra någonting (inte bara gällande musik...), pga lite personligt piss. Längtar tills jag har redit ut min skit, jag vet att jag kommer ha utvecklats när jag har gjort det.

Btw, langa lite råa trummspår (och DI's) näru är klar! (Jag vill öva på att kvantisera jag med!)

Yeah I think so too Sickan.. I think it'll be worth it once I'm done but I have to get there first. Damn, I'm so impatient right now because I have a PILE of things on top of me just waiting to be done one by one. When I'm done with all the current projects in my life I will make sure not to take on this many things at once ever again.

Sorry to hear about your personal problems man... we all have ours so don't feel lonely about it at least! You've got the perfect attitude towards it though and you are right about evolving once you've solved your problems. I know I did..

At least you're such a ridiculously good drummer that you can probably just set the editing to automatically snap to the nearest grid note, then fix up any mistakes, instead of editing each note (assuming Reaper can do this..?). If you were an awful drummer trying to make yourself sound good because you spend all your time producing instead of playing drums (*cough* me *cough*), its a lot harder ;p

GL man and I cannot wait for the end result.

I don't really know Morgan, I've tried that in REAPER once before and it actually duplicated some hits and shit. You have to use "Dynamic Split" to split all the transients, then quantize every bit to the grid and when I did that it just messed up a bunch of stuff. Doing it manually has never failed me so I think I'll just go with that once again. Adam's Slip Editing tutorial will surely come in handy as it will improve the workflow by 50-75% I imagine. Thanks for your comments btw, even though I have a hard time believing it right now

Seriously though, I think you should have an easier workflow to reduce frustration. If you've nailed most of the song, don't do it all over. Instead record the missing parts.

Yeah that too... what can I do about that when I'm a perfectionist asshole though? It's like a behaviour that I can't change.

Probably not what you wanna hear Erkan, but this thread makes me so so so so happy I don't play drums

Haha no but that's fine Marcus, I'm well aware of that I would be as happy as you if I didn't play drums either. It's such a weird thing because most of the time I think drums are such a hassle and crap due to the nature of the damn things but there are certain moments in life where it's aaaaaaaall worth it. One of those moments is when playing live... damn that is a good feeling.

You're just being a hard ass perfectionist on yourself, which is fine

Being a drummer who attempts to hack away at guitar, I LOVE being able to have real drums on my stuff. Granted, it's not technical metal in any way, shape or form, there's no need for crazy double kick, it's mostly groove-oriented rock. But I totally get what you mean about setting up, re-tracking parts over and over to get them right, etc. I'd rather do that, than edit it later on and run the risk of it not sounding the way I wanted it to *exactly*.

On my last project, I had my friend play drums on everything because I wanted the crazy fast technical stuff, which he pulled off without a hitch. After it was all said and done, I realized how bummed I was that I hadn't played drums on anything and was constantly hearing stuff well after the fact and was saying "well I would have played that differently" etc etc There have been a few things I've had to do quickly and didn't get time to practice and mic up the kit, so I went with programmed drums and later on regretted it every time.

Long story short, just suck it up and crank it out, man You're one of the lucky few on the board who can nail live drums, which gives you a huge leg up vs. those who have to rely on programmed drums for everything. Don't stop pushing yourself, enjoy it, and have fun!!!

Don't really know what to reply here since I know you're right and I know it's good in the end that I push myself and so on. No one said this stuff is easy and no art form is really easy either... not that it's supposed to be.

I just feel like I need to practise drums a LOT more before attempting stuff like this but then I won't ever have the time to actually write and arrange any songs! That's where my dilemma is at. I can either spend time being "just" a musician smacking away double kicks all day or I can create songs and share them with the world instead and try to set motion in people's emotions. It takes a lot of time for me to create songs and do all the preparation such as the scratch tracks and all that.. I've never been a fast song writer who can just spew out 10 songs in 2 days.

Anyway, thanks a bunch to everyone again. You've been very kind and you've given me a little boost! I only have 3 songs left to track now... maybe I'll have time to finish it off in a couple of days.

 

[Soundlurker]

Yeah that too... what can I do about that when I'm a perfectionist asshole though? It's like a behaviour that I can't change.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a perfectionist, too. It's just that there are different ways to achieve perfection. Focus on achieving a perfect recording instead of a perfect performance. Once you have the recording and you've finished work on your album you can focus on delivering a perfect performance .

 

[Trevor Marks]

Keep with the drums dude. You're a multi-talent!

Gridlock rock will never trump warm blood n' muscle performance

 

[Pardi]

Ive had several drummers offer to do drums for my album. At one point i was even going to have Trym from Emperor do them. But I decided that it simply was not worth the effort! Why spend countless hours directing a drummer on how to play, setting up the kit, mics, levels, then going through and doing drum replacements when technology has comes so far? If you edit Superior Drummer 2.2 well enough 95% of metal fans will not be able to tell the difference.

 

[Metaltastic]

If you edit Superior Drummer 2.2 well enough 95% of metal fans will not be able to tell the difference.

+1 million, clips on here have convinced me of this

 

[GarethSE]

but if you record real drums, that 5% that are more discerning will realise you've gone the extra mile and will appreciate your music even more for it.

 

[Metaltastic]

but if you record real drums, that 5% that are more discerning will realise you've gone the extra mile and will appreciate your music even more for it.

Guess it all depends on whether one thinks that alone makes it worth it! (but appreciate your music even more, not production? I sure as hell hope not, that'd be pretty lame IMO). As well as the fact that, from a professional AE standpoint, I'd imagine you'd be more likely to get clients if you recorded real drums, rather than triggering everything

 

[DeclanWhite]

hey man, im kinda having the same sort of problem with moving away from drums. i started trying to record stuff mid-late 2009 and at that time i was only a drummer. i decided to teach myself a bit of guitar. i know basically no guitar theory, but i believe i am good enough to record my own stuff good with a little editing. i just bought an rme 800 after about.. 6 months or less of having an e-mu 2 channel interface haha.

back on topic, i hardly play drums now, and focus more on guitar and writing but i play the drums with the 3 bands i write/record for, and i record myself playing drums.

it IS a PITA but its all worth it knowing that its real drumming . but all i have used so far is a crappy 2ch usb interface with kick in one input and overhead in the other. so when i get the rme, ill fully experience the pain of recording drums myself haha.

for an idea where i am right now, check out http://www.myspace.com/declol

ignore the top song though

 

[Erkan]

Hmm yeah I guess real drums is still worth it in the end to have that slight upper edge over everything else but really... people who just listen to music don't know shit anyway. I seriously had several dudes come and ask me if it's me playing drums on those scratch tracks I posted. For anyone who doesn't know, all the scratch tracks I've posted so far has been Addictive Drums with the default setting (slightly tweaked) and I haven't bothered humanizing squat since it's just a scratch track. So if people can assume those are real drums... well it just makes me sad.

Last night I tracked another song and today I'm going back to finish off the tracking with 2 final songs. I go through sticks like crazy, it's just insane I broke a pair of (yes both sticks) Promark Japanese Oak sticks that cost me about 20$ a pair from Thomann, and I've broken some other cheaper sticks while (trying) to learn these songs. Goddamn drumming, always so expensive. New heads cost like... new clothes for an entire year for me! Haha

Anyway, it's gonna be nice once I've finished tracking my own stuff tonight. THEN AFTER THAT I HAVE 13 BLACK METAL SONGS TO TRACK FOR THAT BLACK METAL GUY I WORKED WITH EARLIER, HOOORAAAAAAAAAAYY! *sigh*.

 

[smy1]

I am telling ya: invest 500 bucks in Superior, SSD and Metal Foundry and don't ever look back ...

I have really come to hate drum recording. Absolutely not worth the hassle at all.

 

[Erkan]

I'm actually glad you say that because I love it when there are different opinions instead of one big mainstream opinion. I don't really "agree" or "disagree" with any part of this discussion because I have knowledge enough to realize both have massive pros and cons.

It is a bit "sad" that for a fraction of the money you'd spend on a good kit and mics, you can achieve GREAT results with some software and clever/good programming skills. It just makes it even more difficult for me to choose in the future. Then there is also the problem of relocation around the world... it's easier to only move a computer and some other essential gear rather than lugging around a drum kit and all the accessories for it. The thought of being able to sit at home and produce everything from start to finish is also very cozy as opposed to having to find a place for rent to have your kit at whenever you move to a new place and so on.

Aaaaaanyway, I shouldn't dwell too deep into thoughts right now, I have tracking to do and a project to finish! All thoughts will be dealt with in the future. I'm at least happy I've decided from the start of this project that I WILL stick to real drums no matter what even if the result is worse than programming it. Off I go to finish tracking!

 

[Mago]

It is a bit "sad" that for a fraction of the money you'd spend on a good kit and mics, you can achieve GREAT results with some software and clever/good programming skills. It just makes it even more difficult for me to choose in the future. Then there is also the problem of relocation around the world... it's easier to only move a computer and some other essential gear rather than lugging around a drum kit and all the accessories for it. The thought of being able to sit at home and produce everything from start to finish is also very cozy as opposed to having to find a place for rent to have your kit at whenever you move to a new place and so on.

I'm happy my drummer wouldnt let me get away with just programming his shit.
even if I have to spend hours on editing his drums :Smug:
at least i dont have a choice haha one problem less

good luck erkan! i think it will be worth the whole stress

 

[TheDriller]

It is a bit "sad" that for a fraction of the money you'd spend on a good kit and mics, you can achieve GREAT results with some software and clever/good programming skills.

Same goes for any aspect of this whole Digital Audio thing.

 

[ParsonsMatt]

I think that recording an electric kit and triggering with S2.0/Slate, with acoustic cymbals is probably the best way to go for a budget solution. Editing MIDI is going to be a ton easier than raw audio, and you get that nice polished sound with the more natural sound that real cymbals gives you.

 

[Erkan]

Heh well that is actually very true TheDriller. Just take a DAW as an example. It costs a fraction of what all the analog recording gear used to cost, and it can do a shit ton more. Hadn't really extended my thoughts that far yet

Matt, that's a cool idea. I had actually played with that thought some time ago but I never thought of it for this project. It could also work just to program the drums and play the real cymbals after but they wouldn't have the same feel unfortunately

I finished tracking all drums today but maaaaan I had a hard time nailing the last 2 takes of the last song. I just couldn't do it so I settled for a half-assed take which I will edit extra carefully I'm so damn tired right now. I'm currently preparing my home computer for some editing since I'm gonna edit it all from home. Much more convenient that way! Can't wait 'til I can start tracking guitars, THAT should be fun. To be honest, I didn't enjoy tracking or playing the drums one tiny bit. It felt mostly as a burden and that is just plain wrong. I'll have to think about this when this project is done and over...