Transgender

[waif]

That one and pork.
EDIT: Oops. Now trying to think of a way in which pork is a political issue.

 

[razoredge]

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You were told twice to stop tearing my posts into individual sentences and only applying yourself to smart ass one line remarks and not presenting a case of your own. Yet you have continued, there is but one thing left to do. Get back to me when you mature and learn how to present a view.

 

[waif]

You were told twice to stop tearing my posts into individual sentences and only applying yourself to smart ass one line remarks and not presenting a case of your own. Yet you have continued, there is but one thing left to do. Get back to me when you mature and learn how to present a view.

You were the one who told me that. You aren't a mod last time I checked. As far as the one line remarks, if you'd actually read them you'd notice that most of them point out the gaps in your logic. Also note that you have derailed this thread and that I repeatedly invited you to stop posting in it. Good day.

Norsemaiden or blowtus: would you mind closing this? It seems to have completely failed (probably my fault).

 

[razoredge]

I might not be the mod but those are my posts you are intentionally trying to turn into little seperate sentences. I have never seen anyone respond to someones posts in your manor and I can see right through you. Your entire focus has been on me not the topic, not the points that Im relaying as to how people respond to this and many other examples of the same type of human responses. As I have just shown in the manor the forum rules were written, nothing is unto itself and many factors are involved when it comes to human response and thought. SO I have derailed nothing but only tried to show all things involved in this subject. Nothing is as cut and dry as you want to imply with your little one line "whats the matter with me approach". Organize your own thoughts and present them. Hell, your entire signature takes up a full screen but what you add to this topic could be summed in one sentence.

 

[Vossyrus]

I might not be the mod but those are my posts you are intentionally trying to turn into little seperate sentences. I have never seen anyone respond to someones posts in your manor and I can see right through you. Your entire focus has been on me not the topic, not the points that Im relaying as to how people respond to this and many other examples of the same type of human responses. As I have just shown in the manor the forum rules were written, nothing is unto itself and many factors are involved when it comes to human response and thought. SO I have derailed nothing but only tried to show all things involved in this subject. Nothing is as cut and dry as you want to imply with your little one line "whats the matter with me approach". Organize your own thoughts and present them. Hell, your entire signature takes up a full screen but what you add to this topic could be summed in one sentence.

I don't see what's wrong with dividing someone's post when quoting. I see this very often on forums during discussion - probably some people don't do it because it can be a bit time consuming vs just quoting the entire thing. Not to mention he was trying to specifically address each 'point' you were trying to make and he did it intelligently and successfully. This shouldn't be an issue unless you are admitting your entire posts are heavily flawed and the supporting arguments you are making cannot stand on their own.

Your entire argument was just one incredibly uninformed and narrowminded mess. And no, that’s not a personal attack. On a few occasions you cited one occurrence in order to exemplify something you thought to reflect generally on specific lifestyle choices. You consistently presented an opinion that was biased with your own feelings, and hardly with an open mind to consider that of others or the lifestyle some people choose. Not to mention, the points you were trying to make were weak and immature, and did not contribute to an intelligent, thoughtful, or “intellectually provocative” discussion.

 

[waif]

Thank you.

I'm going to try to get this back on track, if I can remember what the initial purpose even was.

The question is, what is your opinion on the idea of identifying as another gender. Not whether you think it should be discussed in school or tolerated.

So.

I think that thinking of yourself as female if you were born male is denying the reality that you are male. People who deny reality are either crazy or the president (ZING!). I don't know if I would say transgender people are crazy, but I think that there is something odd going on in their brains. Not necessarily something biological; I don't think it's a genetic issue. But there is something in there that's really odd.

 

[razoredge]

I don't see what's wrong with dividing someone's post when quoting. I see this very often on forums during discussion - probably some people don't do it because it can be a bit time consuming vs just quoting the entire thing. Not to mention he was trying to specifically address each 'point' you were trying to make and he did it intelligently and successfully. This shouldn't be an issue unless you are admitting your entire posts are heavily flawed and the supporting arguments you are making cannot stand on their own.

Your entire argument was just one incredibly uninformed and narrowminded mess. And no, that’s not a personal attack. On a few occasions you cited one occurrence in order to exemplify something you thought to reflect generally on specific lifestyle choices. You consistently presented an opinion that was biased with your own feelings, and hardly with an open mind to consider that of others or the lifestyle some people choose. Not to mention, the points you were trying to make were weak and immature, and did not contribute to an intelligent, thoughtful, or “intellectually provocative” discussion.

BS, your interpretation of what I was saying was immature. I am not uninformed and far from narrow minded. I could throw that out at you two for saying you dont think going transexual is right. Or that you dont believe it is a flaw in pre birth development, even people with this issue have said this is something they can do nothing about, they were born this way. If it wasnt a flaw the vast majority would not be free of this problem. Yet you want to sit and attack me by saying that it is perfectly normal for a man to want to be a woman or for a woman to strap her chest down because shes ashamed to have breasts. Its not normal and somewhere the wires got crossed its that simple. No different other than by points of extreme than many other phsycological deviations to the norm. No where in my use of personal references did I say that I assumed my personal experiences were the standard. I even made point a few times to that fact.

So the problem you two have is that you can not focus on a big picture and want to seperate everything down and focus on individual sentences for their meaning by themselves. There are no flaws in my total assessment.

You are both failing miserably at this and still lack the depth to present your own case as a counter point to mine... by focusing on "whats wrong with me"... and in doing so are indicating whats wrong with the reactions of the vast majority of people. Because that was what I was trying to present, the side of people that causes some repulsive reactions to what is out of the norm and how and why people react as they do.

continue but please stay focused on your views and vast experience and knowledge with/of the human race... not mine

presenting a simple "because its just not right" or a "why" to a single sentence that I wrote is shallow

 

[razoredge]

Thank you.

I'm going to try to get this back on track, if I can remember what the initial purpose even was.

The question is, what is your opinion on the idea of identifying as another gender. Not whether you think it should be discussed in school or tolerated.

So.

I think that thinking of yourself as female if you were born male is denying the reality that you are male. People who deny reality are either crazy or the president (ZING!). I don't know if I would say transgender people are crazy, but I think that there is something odd going on in their brains. Not necessarily something biological; I don't think it's a genetic issue. But there is something in there that's really odd.

I think you mean to say, if you can stay focused on the problems presented with your scenerio to deliver a full spectrum view thats worthy of discussion

It can be discussed briefly in school with the child in question and their parents. It presents a hot spot and a distraction in school and should not be allowed. School is for education not personal idenity crisis. We have the rest of our lives for this, this is also when we really discover who we are anyhow, not the confusing, frustrating teenage drama years.

AND...

As I said before, adminstration, faculty and students are well aware of who the bullys & clicky snobs are and they should also be addressed with their parents, that this too will not be allowed in school... "any questions ?... here have a talk with the state police and see if you can get a clue."

As for you last paragraph it implys that you clearly feel these people are crazy, denying reality and should have to deal with thier own problems... somehow an ironic contradiction to your attacking me, when at least I was more open minded about it and applied myself to a broader spectrum of the problem. Very, very interesting... or should I say entertaining...

I dont believe phsycologists have ever been able to sway people with these problems, so it is highly possible that they are truely born with a mind that relates to the opposite sex. There is also strong physical evidence that shows some conflict of gender as well.

 

[waif]

BS, your interpretation of what I was saying was immature. I am not uninformed and far from narrow minded. I could throw that out at you two for saying you dont think going transexual is right.

Please do, because the point of this thread, as you keep forgetting, is to discuss that issue.

Or that you dont believe it is a flaw in pre birth development, even people with this issue have said this is something they can do nothing about, they were born this way.

People with this issue aren't necessarily scientists. People have claimed to be healed by God. Were they?

If it wasnt a flaw the vast majority would not be free of this problem.

That doesn't make sense. It could be a rare mental disorder, and not a genetic flaw.

Yet you want to sit and attack me by saying that it is perfectly normal for a man to want to be a woman or for a woman to strap her chest down because shes ashamed to have breasts

No one is saying it's normal. Normal implies everyone does it, and that's obviously not the case. What we're objecting to is that you seem to be implying that these people do this for self-serving reasons, or that they're deliberately trying to get attention or attract gay sex or bother you or whatever.

Its not normal and somewhere the wires got crossed its that simple.

Okay, obviously, the question is, what wires? Neurons in the brain? Chromosomes? Or does it come from life experience? And since none of us are scientists we can only speculate on this and not speak with any authority (so please stop stating your opinion like it's a fact).

No different other than by points of extreme than many other phsycological deviations to the norm.

Sorry . I guess it's wrong to laugh. I take it English isn't your first language.

So the problem you two have is that you can not focus on a big picture and want to seperate everything down and focus on individual sentences for their meaning by themselves. There are no flaws in my total assessment.

Actually, what I've been doing is addressing your arguments point by point. It's a fairly logical way to do things. This way we avoid lengthy, unfocused rants.
"There are no flaws in my total assessment"
Well, that's your FUCKING OPINION, isn't it?

You are both failing miserably at this and still lack the depth to present your own case as a counter point to mine

I've been doing this in a "your point, my counterpoint" style the entire time. And what do you mean, the depth? It's been hard enough figuring out what you're trying to say (I'm about to abandon charitable interpretation), but I haven't noticed any deep observations from you.

and in doing so are indicating whats wrong with the reactions of the vast majority of people. Because that was what I was trying to present, the side of people that causes some repulsive reactions to what is out of the norm and how and why people react as they do.

Right. Well, there is something wrong with this "vast majority" you claim to represent (I would suggest that it might not be as vast as you think it is); they've allowed the perpetuation of a society that alienates, suppresses, and abuses a disenfranchised group of it's members. You'll whine about the analogy, but slavery did the same thing, and the vast majority of people supported it. And, a better analogy, segregation, again, oppressed a minority and was supported by the majority for a while.

presenting a simple "because its just not right" or a "why" to a single sentence that I wrote is shallow

Not really. If I asked you "why don't we kill all the gay people?" your response would essentially boil down to "because that wouldn't be right." And if I said "we should force feed gay people bull testicles," you would probably say "Why? That's stupid"

 

[razoredge]

Stop fucking breaking down my paragraphs ! Its makes no sense what so ever, Im not going to reread one little sentence you want to focus on so I can even begin to know what you are talking about. Present your case.

Please do, because the point of this thread, as you keep forgetting, is to discuss that issue. People with this issue aren't necessarily scientists. People have claimed to be healed by God. Were they? That doesn't make sense. It could be a rare mental disorder, and not a genetic flaw. No one is saying it's normal. Normal implies everyone does it, and that's obviously not the case. What we're objecting to is that you seem to be implying that these people do this for self-serving reasons, or that they're deliberately trying to get attention or attract gay sex or bother you or whatever. Okay, obviously, the question is, what wires? Neurons in the brain? Chromosomes? Or does it come from life experience? And since none of us are scientists we can only speculate on this and not speak with any authority (so please stop stating your opinion like it's a fact). Sorry . I guess it's wrong to laugh. I take it English isn't your first language. Actually, what I've been doing is addressing your arguments point by point. It's a fairly logical way to do things. This way we avoid lengthy, unfocused rants. "There are no flaws in my total assessment" Well, that's your FUCKING OPINION, isn't it? I've been doing this in a "your point, my counterpoint" style the entire time. And what do you mean, the depth? It's been hard enough figuring out what you're trying to say (I'm about to abandon charitable interpretation), but I haven't noticed any deep observations from you. Right. Well, there is something wrong with this "vast majority" you claim to represent (I would suggest that it might not be as vast as you think it is); they've allowed the perpetuation of a society that alienates, suppresses, and abuses a disenfranchised group of it's members. You'll whine about the analogy, but slavery did the same thing, and the vast majority of people supported it. And, a better analogy, segregation, again, oppressed a minority and was supported by the majority for a while. Not really. If I asked you "why don't we kill all the gay people?" your response would essentially boil down to "because that wouldn't be right." And if I said "we should force feed gay people bull testicles," you would probably say "Why? That's stupid"

LAME, you have no organization of your thoughts to put forward to represent your case or even if you have one. Your only case is to go against mine, even when you have said and endorsed some of the same thoughts I have, only in a narrower vision

 

[BlackMetalWhiteGuy]

I'd prefer to read his posts the way they are, with multiple individual quotes, because you have a very tangential style of posting and it's hard to follow of your thoughts otherwise.

 

[Vossyrus]

BS, your interpretation of what I was saying was immature. I am not uninformed and far from narrow minded. I could throw that out at you two for saying you dont think going transexual is right.

No. And when did I say I thought "going transexual" was wrong. People have the right to undergo surgery of whichver kind they want to. I believe denying reality or factual evidence is what was referred to - in that, if you are born male you are male and are not female simply because you choose to consider yourself to be female in an illogical form of thought. I am not referring to crossdressers and the like here but for example a male who genuinely believes himself to be a woman trapped in a man's body. However, I have no doubt that many people feel they are closer to opposite gender in many regards, and a male for example could just as easily relate or indentify better with females as opposed to males. There is nothing wrong with this. I'm sure this, like homosexuality, is likely a result of genetics and how it is developed or affected by society's influences over time.

Or that you dont believe it is a flaw in pre birth development, even people with this issue have said this is something they can do nothing about, they were born this way. If it wasnt a flaw the vast majority would not be free of this problem. Yet you want to sit and attack me by saying that it is perfectly normal for a man to want to be a woman or for a woman to strap her chest down because shes ashamed to have breasts. Its not normal and somewhere the wires got crossed its that simple. No different other than by points of extreme than many other phsycological deviations to the norm. No where in my use of personal references did I say that I assumed my personal experiences were the standard. I even made point a few times to that fact.

As for the rest of your post, once again, as I've said this before I believe people are past the point of living "naturally" and "normally" for the sake of doing so because in reality, hardly anyone lives by "natural" means so I honestly have no idea why people continuously beat this issue to death. Is the act of living "natually" only exclusive to one's sexuality? No, it isn't and this is common sense. Once again, humans possess the intelligence and capability of selecting and living a lifesytle that they so choose to live.

So the problem you two have is that you can not focus on a big picture and want to seperate everything down and focus on individual sentences for their meaning by themselves. There are no flaws in my total assessment.

Sorry to break it to you, but when someone is debating or putting forth a quality argument for intelligent discussion they must provide and illustrate strong points to support their argument. You are either admitting then that you haven't done so or are saying that the makeup of your argument is thin and weak. You can't exactly build a house made of feathers and expect it to withstand much, now can you? :Smug:

 

[razoredge]

Thats because everything in life is a tangent. Everything has variables and many contributing factors as well as other examples of similiar situations. That is why nothing can be reduced to some simple sentence and be portrayed as the overall meaning to... anything. You sure as hell cant follow my thoughts by his focusing on tiny sentences, especially when he eliminates, separates and ignores what suits him to give a quick thoughtless conclusion along with a smart ass remark. Very base, very shallow. He's spending more time chasing down tiny quotes than interpreting what is said and putting together his own case scenerio for others to consider. Its pathetic really, I've been around boards for years and not once have I seen anyone go about it this way and most boards would put an end to it quick. Thats ignoring his manor of portraying what I say as something he wants it to appear I have said. Its a little game hes playing, not hard to see through, I've had far deeper conversations with far more intellegent and thoughful people. He started on my very first post and even implied he was somehow proud of himself. Even the few normal posts he made stateing how he feels about the subject... he implies his own confusion as to why he feels that way, and offers absolutely nothing as to why... doesnt apply himself its that simple.

The biggest joke is after he gets done critizing me for what he concludes from a single sentence.... he turns around and says the same thing Ive been critized for

quick close by examples:

"because the point of this thread, as you keep forgetting, is to discuss that issue."

so wheres his discussion ? I presented mine... WTF is his case ?

I said this

Yet you want to sit and attack me by saying that it is perfectly normal for a man to want to be a woman or for a woman to strap her chest down because shes ashamed to have breasts. Its not normal and somewhere the wires got crossed its that simple.

but he separates it so it looks like this

Yet you want to sit and attack me by saying that it is perfectly normal for a man to want to be a woman or for a woman to strap her chest down because shes ashamed to have breasts.

so to be able to add this comment

implying that these people do this for self-serving reasons, or that they're deliberately trying to get attention or attract gay sex or bother you or whatever.

because if he left the whole thing attached there was no need to even add the previous nonsense which doesnt even apply to the meaning of the entire paragraph

Its not normal and somewhere the wires got crossed its that simple.

yet follows up with this himself

Okay, obviously, the question is, what wires? Neurons in the brain? Chromosomes? Or does it come from life experience?

followed by his feeling that only scientists can evaluate why... which they cant... nor the mental heath community and of course followed by the mandated smart ass remark

And since none of us are scientists we can only speculate on this and not speak with any authority (so please stop stating your opinion like it's a fact).

to which I could easily add, why are you asking me all these questions? answer them yourself. I have already said I dont know and I dont care, I just know their head isnt operating properly and dont see why it should become everybody elses problem. It is a personal problem which involves the family and logical responsibility on their behalf not to disrupt what teenagers are in school for and thats education, not a freak show, not a potentially volatile situation. Not to parade around in school with lipstick and a mini skirt on and throwing your voice, then wonder why you have pissed some people off and made others shutter at the sight of ya. "oh gee... nobody likes me"... well DUH... your making a spectacle of yourself and you have issues! It simply doesnt belong in school.

 

[Vossyrus]

First of all, do you know what an argument or debate is? The sentiment is rather rhetorical so don't answer that.

One person presents an argument. The other presents an differing argument. The two debate further by putting forth supporting reasons to why they believe they are correct or justified in saying so, and then by countering these in the other's argument etc.

He is doing exactly that and not altering the meaning or implications of your post. By quoting parts of your post, he is simply addressing elements of it that are either flawed or weak or are invalid in providing a justified argument. Get over it.

 

[razoredge]

First of all, do you know what an argument or debate is? The sentiment is rather rhetorical so don't answer that.

One person presents an argument. The other presents an differing argument. The two debate further by putting forth supporting reasons to why they believe they are correct or justified in saying so, and then by countering these in the other's argument etc.

He is doing exactly that and not altering the meaning or implications of your post. By quoting parts of your post, he is simply addressing elements of it that are either flawed or weak or are invalid in providing a justified argument. Get over it.

OK, being how you must be smarter than me, wanna take his posts for him put them together in a mannor so they make some sort of sense and present me with his arguement ? Because Im just not seeing it. All I see is personal attacks, questions, altering what Im saying and one line responces.... to one line he pulls for his satisfaction. He cant think for himself, present his views while making an effort to validate them and apparently even defend himself otherwise you wouldnt be doing it for him... get over it

none the less its still not right to alter what someone says by segmenting and selecting small portions of the entire thing. Its called misquoting. Its what the media does to spin stories.
----------------------------------------------------------------

What you said about being born M or F. Could it be possible that there is more to determining a gender than just the organs ? Im sure one day we will see it presented this way by the poor, poor, pitiful me, gay rights lobby.

What you said about living naturally. We and all mammals reproduce naturally, (except for the defective which cant concieve) which requires a male and female. We still breath naturally, we still walk on two legs, we still eat with our mouths, work all day to support our life. We are still carrying on quite naturally as we have always done, all that has changed is the mechanics. So Im really not sure what you are going for there ? Is it a counter point that it is not natural that males and females seek each other for mates ? Do you feel this society should be presenting youth with the possibilities that they should sway from the norm and try same sex sex due to "its not important whats natural"? Or should everyone just start leaving everything alone and let youth come by their sexuality naturally rather than force feeding all this crap all the time?

Im not denying that some percentage of gays are just born out of the loop but if it was natural why doesnt a man have a womb ? Why doesnt a female produce sperm ? This is another thing I wouldnt be surprised gay pressure groups will be trying to have surgically altered if they are not already.

I wanna know where the sociopath serial killer rights lobby is, history has shown that this occurs naturally, so it cant be a mutation, why are we repressing them ? There is no equal rights in that. Perhaps we could use them to lay the sickly or tired to rest as we do our animals when they are suffering... that would be natural and provide an outlet for their ambitions. Perhaps train them for military purposes so our normal boys and girls can get on with their lives and families.

Ironicly I recieved this in the email during the week, not that I mean to imply its a typically natural sign of healthy development

 

[Vossyrus]

none the less its still not right to alter what someone says by segmenting and selecting small portions of the entire thing. Its called misquoting. Its what the media does to spin stories.

He already has said how he feels on the subject, and even made a couple attempts to keep the discussion on topic.

And that is not called misquoting. He isn't editing the words in your posts, and he's not even paraphrasing. His has taken direct quotes from your posts. Ever read the newspaper or magazines, watch TV of any sort? When they are quoting a politician/athelete/celebrity do they quote every single word they say?

What you said about being born M or F. Could it be possible that there is more to determining a gender than just the organs ? Im sure one day we will see it presented this way by the poor, poor, pitiful me, gay rights lobby.

It depends on how you are interpreting all that. Essentially when differentiating between male and female, the basic gender of one is determined by the sex of the individual, by way of the reproductive anatomy.

What you said about living naturally. We and all mammals reproduce naturally, (except for the defective which cant concieve) which requires a male and female. We still breath naturally, we still walk on two legs, we still eat with our mouths, work all day to support our life. We are still carrying on quite naturally as we have always done, all that has changed is the mechanics. So Im really not sure what you are going for there ? Is it a counter point that it is not natural that males and females seek each other for mates ? Do you feel this society should be presenting youth with the possibilities that they should sway from the norm and try same sex sex due to "its not important whats natural"? Or should everyone just start leaving everything alone and let youth come by their sexuality naturally rather than force feeding all this crap all the time?

Im not denying that some percentage of gays are just born out of the loop but if it was natural why doesnt a man have a womb ? Why doesnt a female produce sperm ?

Why do you feel it’s necessary to live “naturally?” By your assessment, do transgenders not walk on two legs, work for a living etc. Why do you place such importance on the sexuality of an individual? Is that because it’s potentially a risk in decreasing the human population? In that case, what is the difference between transgenders or homosexuals ( what’s perceived as ‘wrong’ and unnatural by society) vs males/females who do not want children, or who cannot have even children?

And I never said society should enforce the issue of being homosexual or bisexual or whatever - rather they should keep an open mind to these individuals and treat them fairly, something that obviously has yet to be done. You seemed to protest the idea of learning this in schools? People learn about racism in school and at younger ages, so how is learning about transgenders or homosexuals any different? Both homophobia and racism are prejudicial issues that society is steal dealing with, so what is the difference in learning either in schools.

This is another thing I wouldnt be surprised gay pressure groups will be trying to have surgically altered if they are not already.

Transgenders and homosexuals are not the same thing. I used them together in example because they represent the sexuality that society doesn’t accept with open arms and consider to be natural - not because they are the same thing. Most homosexuals do not seek out surgery, so what is that point in that post?

I wanna know where the sociopath serial killer rights lobby is, history has shown that this occurs naturally, so it cant be a mutation, why are we repressing them ? There is no equal rights in that. Perhaps we could use them to lay the sickly or tired to rest as we do our animals when they are suffering... that would be natural and provide an outlet for their ambitions. Perhaps train them for military purposes so our normal boys and girls can get on with their lives and families.

I want to know how that is a valid comparison? You are essentially saying that a transgenders are no more worthy of rights than a serial killer? Transgenders and homosexuals are generally of zero threat to anyone. This is not only a terrible example to illustrate anything you are saying, but it’s irrelevant and it is these types or comments you make that open yourself up to what you consider “personal attacks.”

Ironicly I recieved this in the email during the week, not that I mean to imply its a typically natural sign of healthy development

Good for you. Are you honestly implying that children aren’t curious to know about that at a young age?

 

[razoredge]

He already has said how he feels on the subject, and even made a couple attempts to keep the discussion on topic.

Topic is on subject what are you missing here ?

And that is not called misquoting. He isn't editing the words in your posts, and he's not even paraphrasing. His has taken direct quotes from your posts. Ever read the newspaper or magazines, watch TV of any sort? When they are quoting a politician/athelete/celebrity do they quote every single word they say?

Editing the meaning, thats all that matters. Havent you heard of media spin ? sensationalism ?

Why do you feel it’s necessary to live “naturally?”

Where did I say this ?

By your assessment, do transgenders not walk on two legs, work for a living etc.

Where did I say this ?

Why do you place such importance on the sexuality of an individual?

Where did I say this ?

Why do you place such importance on the sexuality of an individual?

Why does the gay community place such importants on sex ?

Why do you place such importance on the sexuality of an individual?

Why are you placing so much importance on sexuality ?

Why do you place such importance on the sexuality of an individual?

Why did flamer place so much importance on sexuality and create this topic ?

Is that because it’s potentially a risk in decreasing the human population?

Where did I say this ?

In that case, what is the difference between transgenders or homosexuals vs males/females who do not want children, or who cannot have even children?

Males and Females who do not want children still carry on their lives in a responsible fashion and dont make spectacles of themselves in school, if fact they havent even become couples yet and made life determining decisions

And I never said society should enforce the issue of being homosexual or bisexual or whatever - rather they should keep an open mind to these individuals and treat them fairly, something that obviously has yet to be done.

Who said it wasnt done? I have also already addressed this

You seemed to protest the idea of learning this in schools?

I already addressed this, biology class, show it for what it is, johnny can were trousers like the rest of the boys and majority of the girls until hes out of public schools which are supported by tax payers dollars

People learn about racism in school and at younger ages, so how is learning about transgenders or homosexuals any different?

Antiracism is easy to teach, sexual disorders is a private matter, related to biology and psychology, our public schools are not in place to teach same sex sex or delve into a minute fraction of people with psychological issues. Those people have to make the sacrifice, I already covered this

Both homophobia and racism are prejudicial issues that society is steal dealing with, so what is the difference in learning either in schools.

"Homophobia" doesnt exist, its a negitive spin the gay rights movement has placed on normal people as some kind of guilt trip due to their inadequacies. Show it for what it is. Its not a simple as a skin color

Transgenders and homosexuals are not the same thing.

Where did I say it was ?

they represent the sexuality that society doesn’t accept with open arms and consider to be natural

Because its not natural

not because they are the same thing.

they are covered by the same special interest group

Most homosexuals do not seek out surgery

Who said they did?

so what is that point in that post?

because I know for a fact than when special interest types get done with one thing they move on to the next, I can see it coming down the road.

I want to know how that is a valid comparison?

because they both represent psychological inbalances that society is repressing. I thought equal rights and acceptance of mutations from the norm was the goal?

You are essentially saying that a transgenders are no more worthy of rights than a serial killer?

Transgenders can do what ever they like as mature adults once they are out of public schools. Serial killers must not kill while in school and must join the armed forces after. Fair is fair

Transgenders and homosexuals are generally of zero threat to anyone.

never heard of AIDS ?

This is not only a terrible example to illustrate anything you are saying,

I believe its quite to the point.

it is these types or comments you make that open yourself up to what you consider “personal attacks.”

I dont mind the personal attacks, it shows weakness and immaturity in those that see themselves as an opponent

Good for you. Are you honestly implying that children aren’t curious to know about that at a young age?

Why is it you lack the depth to grasp the meaning of whats going on in the photo

 

[waif]

Stop fucking breaking down my paragraphs ! Its makes no sense what so ever, Im not going to reread one little sentence you want to focus on so I can even begin to know what you are talking about. Present your case.

LAME, you have no organization of your thoughts to put forward to represent your case or even if you have one. Your only case is to go against mine, even when you have said and endorsed some of the same thoughts I have, only in a narrower vision

The format for this debate is digital. This allows us to respond to each point individually. This makes more sense than an unfocused rant. All I have done is take advantage of the format. I suggest you do the same. If you notice, you're the only one whining about it.

Thats because everything in life is a tangent. Everything has variables and many contributing factors as well as other examples of similiar situations. That is why nothing can be reduced to some simple sentence and be portrayed as the overall meaning to... anything. You sure as hell cant follow my thoughts by his focusing on tiny sentences, especially when he eliminates, separates and ignores what suits him to give a quick thoughtless conclusion along with a smart ass remark. Very base, very shallow. He's spending more time chasing down tiny quotes than interpreting what is said and putting together his own case scenerio for others to consider. Its pathetic really, I've been around boards for years and not once have I seen anyone go about it this way and most boards would put an end to it quick. Thats ignoring his manor of portraying what I say as something he wants it to appear I have said. Its a little game hes playing, not hard to see through, I've had far deeper conversations with far more intellegent and thoughful people. He started on my very first post and even implied he was somehow proud of himself. Even the few normal posts he made stateing how he feels about the subject... he implies his own confusion as to why he feels that way, and offers absolutely nothing as to why... doesnt apply himself its that simple.


The biggest joke is after he gets done critizing me for what he concludes from a single sentence.... he turns around and says the same thing Ive been critized for

quick close by examples:


so wheres his discussion ? I presented mine... WTF is his case ?

I said this


but he separates it so it looks like this


so to be able to add this comment


because if he left the whole thing attached there was no need to even add the previous nonsense which doesnt even apply to the meaning of the entire paragraph


yet follows up with this himself

followed by his feeling that only scientists can evaluate why... which they cant... nor the mental heath community and of course followed by the mandated smart ass remark



to which I could easily add, why are you asking me all these questions? answer them yourself. I have already said I dont know and I dont care, I just know their head isnt operating properly and dont see why it should become everybody elses problem. It is a personal problem which involves the family and logical responsibility on their behalf not to disrupt what teenagers are in school for and thats education, not a freak show, not a potentially volatile situation. Not to parade around in school with lipstick and a mini skirt on and throwing your voice, then wonder why you have pissed some people off and made others shutter at the sight of ya. "oh gee... nobody likes me"... well DUH... your making a spectacle of yourself and you have issues! It simply doesnt belong in school.

Okay, to make you happy I'll respond to this idiotic rant in it's entirety.
Okay, skipping past the opening rant.
Skipping past the bizarre analysis of my quoting.
Okay. At this point it becomes impossible to respond except with a point-by-point breakdown, so I'll use that. If you don't like it, suck it up.

followed by his feeling that only scientists can evaluate why... which they cant... nor the mental heath community and of course followed by the mandated smart ass remark

Who, if not scientists, can analyze genetic and developmental processes to see if there are any errors or mutations linked to LBGT?

why are you asking me all these questions? answer them yourself.

Okay, if you don't want to be part of this thread, then don't. But this sorta the point of the discussion.

As far as the rest of that post goes, if you aren't interested in discussing this topic, then leave.

OK, being how you must be smarter than me, wanna take his posts for him put them together in a mannor so they make some sort of sense and present me with his arguement ? Because Im just not seeing it. All I see is personal attacks, questions, altering what Im saying and one line responces.... to one line he pulls for his satisfaction. He cant think for himself, present his views while making an effort to validate them and apparently even defend himself otherwise you wouldnt be doing it for him... get over it

none the less its still not right to alter what someone says by segmenting and selecting small portions of the entire thing. Its called misquoting. Its what the media does to spin stories.

No, it's actually called quoting. It's called misquoting if I take something out of context to imply that you want to eat Jewish babies. I haven't done that, have I?

What you said about being born M or F. Could it be possible that there is more to determining a gender than just the organs ? Im sure one day we will see it presented this way by the poor, poor, pitiful me, gay rights lobby.

This would be an intelligent comment without the third sentence. Normally I would have taken your comment out of context by just using the first 2 sentences, but since you complained about it I'll leave the third sentence (where you say something stupid) in.

What you said about living naturally. We and all mammals reproduce naturally, (except for the defective which cant concieve) which requires a male and female. We still breath naturally, we still walk on two legs, we still eat with our mouths, work all day to support our life. We are still carrying on quite naturally as we have always done, all that has changed is the mechanics. So Im really not sure what you are going for there ? Is it a counter point that it is not natural that males and females seek each other for mates ? Do you feel this society should be presenting youth with the possibilities that they should sway from the norm and try same sex sex due to "its not important whats natural"? Or should everyone just start leaving everything alone and let youth come by their sexuality naturally rather than force feeding all this crap all the time?

No one is saying that people should be gay. I think we'd all agree that it would be preferable to be straight, and thus inclined to pass on one's genetic material. However, some people are gay. This is out of anyone's control, it happens naturally, and we feel that these people shouldn't be repressed for something out of their control.

Im not denying that some percentage of gays are just born out of the loop but if it was natural why doesnt a man have a womb ? Why doesnt a female produce sperm ? This is another thing I wouldnt be surprised gay pressure groups will be trying to have surgically altered if they are not already.

Here you've simultaneously demonstrated your keen understanding of evolution (doesn't work that way) and firm grip on current events (sex change operations. Ever head of 'em?). You've also demonstrated complete and total ignorance of what LGBT stands for. L and G are for lesbian and gay. This is for women who identify as women and are attracted to women and men who identify as men who are attracted to men. B is for bisexual. This is for people who identify as their birth gender but are attracted to both genders. T stands for transgender. This is people who identify as a gender other than their birth gender. They are the ones who would be undergoing sex reassignment surgery.

I wanna know where the sociopath serial killer rights lobby is, history has shown that this occurs naturally, so it cant be a mutation, why are we repressing them ?

This is a shitty analogy. Serial killers harm others. LGBT people don't (unless they're gay serial killers).

Perhaps we could use them to lay the sickly or tired to rest as we do our animals when they are suffering

Kill old people. Good call.

Perhaps train them for military purposes so our normal boys and girls can get on with their lives and families.

Oh, good idea. We need more dead civilians. (I understand this comment was sarcastic, but the analogy was so bad that I can't resist mocking you for it).

Ironicly I recieved this in the email during the week, not that I mean to imply its a typically natural sign of healthy development

[/QUOTE]
You might want to look into one of these: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chastity_belt
Obviously, little kids aren't having sex. It's not wrong for them to be curious about their bodies.

Topic is on subject what are you missing here ?

Why does the gay community place such importants on sex ? Why are you placing so much importance on sexuality ? Why did flamer place so much importance on sexuality and create this topic ?

1. Why do you assume they do?
2. Because I'm just a desperate horny fuck in his mother's basement and I can't stop thinking about lesbian porn while fondling myself.

Where did I say this ? Males and Females who do not want children still carry on their lives in a responsible fashion and dont make spectacles of themselves in school, if fact they havent even become couples yet and made life determining decisions

Yeah, that's what transgender people want. To make spectacles of themselves.

Who said it wasnt done? I have also already addressed this I already addressed this, biology class, show it for what it is

What is it? You don't seem to understand that there's no answer to that question as of yet.

johnny can were trousers like the rest of the boys and majority of the girls until hes out of public schools which are supported by tax payers dollars

Oh no, not tax payer's dollars! Once again, this is what we call repression. It's pretty much the same as forcing straight men to wear women's clothing.

Antiracism is easy to teach, sexual disorders is a private matter, related to biology and psychology, our public schools are not in place to teach same sex sex or delve into a minute fraction of people with psychological issues.

Where should this be done, then?

Those people have to make the sacrifice, I already covered this

Right. And I don't think anyone agrees with you.

"Homophobia" doesnt exist, its a negitive spin the gay rights movement has placed on normal people as some kind of guilt trip due to their inadequacies

Those photos from the moon landing are fake. The FBI assassinated Kennedy and King. L. Ron. Hubbard was right about everything.

Because its not natural

Then why does it occur in nature?

because I know for a fact than when special interest types get done with one thing they move on to the next, I can see it coming down the road.

Like the Temperance movement. Once they got the Prohibition passed, they tried to stop us drinking orange juice.

I thought equal rights and acceptance of mutations from the norm was the goal?

No one is advocating accepting someone who harms others.

never heard of AIDS ?

This is possibly the stupid thing you've ever said. Let me enumerate the fundamental flaws in this argument:
1. This is the big one; gay people like to have sex with other gay people. So how are they spreading it to straight people?
2. Straight people can also give you AIDS.
3. AIDS originated in Africa. This proves that black people are a danger to others.

 

[Vossyrus]

Topic is on subject what are you missing here ? And that is not called misquoting. He isn't editing the words in your posts, and he's not even paraphrasing. His has taken direct quotes from your posts. Ever read the newspaper or magazines, watch TV of any sort? When they are quoting a politician/athelete/celebrity do they quote every single word they say?

Editing the meaning, thats all that matters. Havent you heard of media spin ? sensationalism ?

Topic is not completely on subject because you keep whining about how he is answering your posts, and I am having to explain to you why. If you don’t want him to quote you, don’t write anything. This isn’t sensationalism, you are exaggerating. Stop complaining.

Where did I say this ?

Re-read your own posts.

because they both represent psychological inbalances that society is repressing. I thought equal rights and acceptance of mutations from the norm was the goal?

You’ve already made the unnatural reference several times as a counterpoint. Explain why, if this is so unnatural, is it a bad thing? Why are you opposed to giving them rights? You’ve just essentially said they are mutations with psychological imbalances, and the implication is that they should be treated that way, as opposed to people.

Why does the gay community place such importants on sex ?

In what way are they placing such importance on sex?

Why did flamer place so much importance on sexuality and create this topic ?

You are using it in the wrong context, and the thread was initially derailed because of it. It was taken out of topic because you did not understand the context it was used in, in the first place.

Males and Females who do not want children still carry on their lives in a responsible fashion and dont make spectacles of themselves in school, if fact they havent even become couples yet and made life determining decisions

Here you are implying that transgenders don’t live responsible lives, and are making spectacles out of themselves at school. That is subjective to how you are viewing it - narrowmindedly in your case.

And I’ll use another example, how about teen pregnancy? Does this to some extent not represent irresponsibility of straight, natural and normal individuals. Are they not attracting attention in this manner?

I already addressed this, biology class, show it for what it is, johnny can were trousers like the rest of the boys and majority of the girls until hes out of public schools which are supported by tax payers dollars

Explain why Johnny wearing a skirt is a bad thing. How is a guy wearing a skirt different from a girl wearing a skirt, likewise why can women wear jeans just as men can?

Antiracism is easy to teach, sexual disorders is a private matter, related to biology and psychology, our public schools are not in place to teach same sex sex or delve into a minute fraction of people with psychological issues. Those people have to make the sacrifice, I already covered this

How are these “sexual disorders” any more difficult to teach than anything else. How about drug addictions, sexual diseases etc which can all be viewed as private matter as well, being brought to attention. This is high school, the kids aren't exactly 'innocent' at this point in their lives.

"Homophobia" doesnt exist, its a negitive spin the gay rights movement has placed on normal people as some kind of guilt trip due to their inadequacies. Show it for what it is. Its not a simple as a skin color

Homophobic people do exist. Are you that naive? People are prejudice against skin color, different languages, different cultures, sexual orientation, gender etc. These all exist.

Because its not natural

Once again, explain how the significance of this.

Who said they did?

You made a poorly worded comment about “gay pressure “ groups and surgical alteration.

This is another thing I wouldnt be surprised gay pressure groups will be trying to have surgically altered if they are not already

because I know for a fact than when special interest types get done with one thing they move on to the next, I can see it coming down the road.

You know this for a fact? Give factual evidence then to support this.

Transgenders can do what ever they like as mature adults once they are out of public schools. Serial killers must not kill while in school and must join the armed forces after. Fair is fair

lol. What is this? What does that have to do with anything? I’m sure many potential serial killers would love to join the army and that’s why you see so many of them in uniform right? Please stop making irrelevant and idiotic posts.

never heard of AIDS ?

Oh right, because AIDS doesn’t apply to straight people.

I believe its quite to the point.

No. It’s irrelevant. Otherwise explain.

I dont mind the personal attacks, it shows weakness and immaturity in those that see themselves as an opponent

But you just missed the point. They aren’t personal attacks, they are comments addressing weak remarks you’ve made that you have understood to be personal attacks.

Why is it you lack the depth to grasp the meaning of whats going on in the photo

A child is curious? This is very common unless I have misunderstood the simple pic. With your in-depth knowledge and understanding of the photo, please explain the seriousness of the photo and how it is not a sign of natural development of a child.

 

[razoredge]

If you notice, you're the only one whining about it.

because they are my posts you are fucking with.... DUH!

Okay, to make you happy I'll respond to this idiotic rant in it's entirety.

not the first idiotic rant you've had regarding my analysis of the problem

Skipping past the bizarre analysis of my quoting.

living in denial ?

Okay. At this point it becomes impossible to respond except with a point-by-point breakdown, so I'll use that. If you don't like it, suck it up.

and this is because you cant suck it up and organize your own thoughts

Who, if not scientists, can analyze genetic and developmental processes to see if there are any errors or mutations linked to LBGT?

Who said they cant? But why put the time into the obvious ?

Okay, if you don't want to be part of this thread, then don't. But this sorta the point of the discussion.

Oh, Im very much enjoying this... but why are you focusing on me instead of your own thoughts ? Threatened ? Dont know what they are ? To much time spent quoting ?

As far as the rest of that post goes, if you aren't interested in discussing this topic, then leave.

Say what ? Can't you make any sense even with one sentence ?

I knew you were confused

No, it's actually called quoting. It's called misquoting if I take something out of context to imply that you want to eat Jewish babies. I haven't done that, have I?

Oh yeah, totally confused, evasive, threatened and cant apply yourself with any depth of thought... nice rant though...

This would be an intelligent comment without the third sentence. Normally I would have taken your comment out of context by just using the first 2 sentences, but since you complained about it I'll leave the third sentence (where you say something stupid) in.

yes you would have taken the point out of context if you split it. Special interests types are dieing for things to cry and dramatize about... but with your.... what... 1 year maybe of impressionable social awareness you just havent seen much have you ? but good job being a man and leaving my words intact, you may have just grown if only a wee bit

No one is saying that people should be gay. I think we'd all agree that it would be preferable to be straight, and thus inclined to pass on one's genetic material. However, some people are gay. This is out of anyone's control, it happens naturally, and we feel that these people shouldn't be repressed for something out of their control.

How do you know this ?
We dont want gays passing on their genetics
No kidding, didnt I say that
Its a mutation from the norm, not natural, I have pointed out a few other mutations from the norm, guess what... didnt want to hear it
I have said that too... but... well... more DUH ?

Here you've simultaneously demonstrated your keen understanding of evolution (doesn't work that way) and firm grip on current events (sex change operations. Ever head of 'em?). You've also demonstrated complete and total ignorance of what LGBT stands for. L and G are for lesbian and gay. This is for women who identify as women and are attracted to women and men who identify as men who are attracted to men. B is for bisexual. This is for people who identify as their birth gender but are attracted to both genders. T stands for transgender. This is people who identify as a gender other than their birth gender. They are the ones who would be undergoing sex reassignment surgery.

Time to check the connection between your eye sockets and the part of your brain that is supposed to comprehend what you read... more DUH! So what is it you want, do you want me to keep these all connected or separate... or according to your mood at any given time ? Cant tell you have ranted at me for both

This is a shitty analogy. Serial killers harm others. LGBT people don't (unless they're gay serial killers).

yes but they are poor poor pitiful creatures that need a support group and lobby, they are born this way so it must be natural, why are we repressing them ?......... that you would even respond to that

Kill old people. Good call.

yep, dense and lacking focus, easily distracted

Oh, good idea. We need more dead civilians. (I understand this comment was sarcastic, but the analogy was so bad that I can't resist mocking you for it).

would do mankind good to re-enter the world of checks and balances... but anyhow the laughs on you

You might want to look into one of these: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chastity_belt
Obviously, little kids aren't having sex. It's not wrong for them to be curious about their bodies.

and you too, lack the focus and experience to recognize what you are seeing here, serious failure but you have an excuse, I just figured you (two)would get it. Dont know what I was thinking.

1. Why do you assume they do?
2. Because I'm just a desperate horny fuck in his mother's basement and I can't stop thinking about lesbian porn while fondling myself.

1. give yourself time with experience
2. give yourself time and experience

Yeah, that's what transgender people want. To make spectacles of themselves.

yeah, thats what straight people want so they locate them and kill them

What is it? You don't seem to understand that there's no answer to that question as of yet.

yes there is, you even said it, somethings wrong in their heads. Backpedaling now ?

Oh no, not tax payer's dollars! Once again, this is what we call repression. It's pretty much the same as forcing straight men to wear women's clothing.

More backpedaling ? More contradiction ? You said they should identify as they were born according to what was between their "birth sex" "gender"

Where should this be done, then?

already stated that multiple times

Right. And I don't think anyone agrees with you.

No one ? I feel repressed, Im gonna start my own special interest group and do some lobbyin'

Those photos from the moon landing are fake. The FBI assassinated Kennedy and King. L. Ron. Hubbard was right about everything.

well, I dont know, we would first need to do a scientific study and run a few well placed surveys to be sure

Then why does it occur in nature?

why do all the devations from the norm occur in nature and why dont these people have their own special interest group to cry them a river... damnit, its just not fair

Like the Temperance movement. Once they got the Prohibition passed, they tried to stop us drinking orange juice.

yes, but I got me some bootleg juice

No one is advocating accepting someone who harms others.

but thats being inconsiderate of their sensitivities

This is possibly the stupid thing you've ever said. Let me enumerate the fundamental flaws in this argument:
1. This is the big one; gay people like to have sex with other gay people. So how are they spreading it to straight people?
2. Straight people can also give you AIDS.
3. AIDS originated in Africa. This proves that black people are a danger to others.

This is not the only stupid thing you have said
1. yeah, how is it they did that ?
2. yeah, how is it they did that ?
3. are you sure it wasnt the FBI ? Only when they have a gun and some crack

Im begining to like this method and see why you do. Its so much easier for the mind and less time consuming than organizing my own thoughts. I stand advised and will do this everywhere I go from now on. Im sure it will be highly appreaciated by others Im trying to relate to............