Triggers
- Thread starter NicholasDWolfwood
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opeth_353
Member
.. for a minute i thought someone was suggesting that triggers actually make the sound for the person.. so that they don't actually have to do anything .. fortunately i realised that they weren't saying that..
Triggers are fine in my opinion but for Opeth's style of music.. at least their original/older style.. it is not necesary. As someone has already said, they benefit from a more 'organic' sound.
Triggers are fine in my opinion but for Opeth's style of music.. at least their original/older style.. it is not necesary. As someone has already said, they benefit from a more 'organic' sound.
thelordofcheesecake
Member
When I saw the band in Nottingham earlier this year, it didn't sound triggered. And yes, it was fucking intense.
The Poona of Peshwa
Blood Glutton
thelordofcheesecake
Member
If that was aimed at me, I was actually referring to seeing Opeth (and the "earlier this year" was in fact "late last year", I've just lost all track of time).
Referring to Opeth sounding better with the 'organic' sound, i think you are right... But i also think that modern day drum-modules sound so good that 95 out of 100 people here won't hear the difference with a real kick...
And again, a trigger is as much an advantage to the drummer as it is to the sound-engineer! No hassle with mikes, cross-talking between other mikes, endless sound-checking to give the kicks more definition, compressing/eqing, damping, etc..
If you don't disable the velocity (the term which defines the force with which you hit the skin) on the module, you, as a drummer, don't have any advantages whatsoever.. You still have to hit each drum with the same force! And, on the downside, if you trigger, faults and sloppy timings will be way more audible...
Same as the before mentioned piano.. You can bring a real piano on stage, which needs escessive miking, tuning, etcetera.. You can also bring a digital piano on stage, hand the sound-engineer 2 jack-cables and you're good to go! And, especially in live-situations, people won't hear the difference..
And yeah, i wish i could play a song like Masters Apprentices, damn!! But then again, check the media section (the 4-8-06 jam vid is INCREDIBLE) on The Derek Roddy site, this guy is much, MUCH faster and easily keeps that speed up for a whole 2 hour show... (To me, Derek Roddy is the best drummer there is.. Not only able to play ultra-fast Deathmetal, but also blues, jazz, fusion, you name it..)
But i'm going offtopic here
I'm not pro- or anti-triggers, but it bothers me that a lot of people call drummers with triggers bad.. Or lazy.. (Not happening here yet, but i've heard it soooo many times..) Some people don't know exactly what a trigger does..
A trigger, on impact of the skin, (it 'senses' the vibration) sends a pulse to the connected drum-module. The pulse contains information about the impact, like velocity. The module receives this and plays the selected sample on the right velocity/volume. That's it. It is not a magic box which makes everyone a superdrummer! As i said, if your kicks are really audible, sloppy timings and errors will be way more clear, so in a way, you have to be a really tight drummer to make triggers work to your advantage!
Every module has an option to exclude velocity-data, so that all samples sound at the same volume, no matter how hard you hit the skin. This is the only way a drummer can "cheat". But what would you rather have? A acoustic drummer who plays really fast, but you can't really tell because the kicks tend to drown in the mix, of triggered kicks and being able to hear everything the drummer does?
And again, end of rant, haha.. Not trying to accusing people of ignorance or something, just trying to explain some stuff about triggers
Definately no offence meant to anyone! *hands beers all around*
And again, a trigger is as much an advantage to the drummer as it is to the sound-engineer! No hassle with mikes, cross-talking between other mikes, endless sound-checking to give the kicks more definition, compressing/eqing, damping, etc..
If you don't disable the velocity (the term which defines the force with which you hit the skin) on the module, you, as a drummer, don't have any advantages whatsoever.. You still have to hit each drum with the same force! And, on the downside, if you trigger, faults and sloppy timings will be way more audible...
Same as the before mentioned piano.. You can bring a real piano on stage, which needs escessive miking, tuning, etcetera.. You can also bring a digital piano on stage, hand the sound-engineer 2 jack-cables and you're good to go! And, especially in live-situations, people won't hear the difference..
And yeah, i wish i could play a song like Masters Apprentices, damn!! But then again, check the media section (the 4-8-06 jam vid is INCREDIBLE) on The Derek Roddy site, this guy is much, MUCH faster and easily keeps that speed up for a whole 2 hour show... (To me, Derek Roddy is the best drummer there is.. Not only able to play ultra-fast Deathmetal, but also blues, jazz, fusion, you name it..)
But i'm going offtopic here
I'm not pro- or anti-triggers, but it bothers me that a lot of people call drummers with triggers bad.. Or lazy.. (Not happening here yet, but i've heard it soooo many times..) Some people don't know exactly what a trigger does..
A trigger, on impact of the skin, (it 'senses' the vibration) sends a pulse to the connected drum-module. The pulse contains information about the impact, like velocity. The module receives this and plays the selected sample on the right velocity/volume. That's it. It is not a magic box which makes everyone a superdrummer! As i said, if your kicks are really audible, sloppy timings and errors will be way more clear, so in a way, you have to be a really tight drummer to make triggers work to your advantage!
Every module has an option to exclude velocity-data, so that all samples sound at the same volume, no matter how hard you hit the skin. This is the only way a drummer can "cheat". But what would you rather have? A acoustic drummer who plays really fast, but you can't really tell because the kicks tend to drown in the mix, of triggered kicks and being able to hear everything the drummer does?
And again, end of rant, haha.. Not trying to accusing people of ignorance or something, just trying to explain some stuff about triggers
Definately no offence meant to anyone! *hands beers all around*
Rawr said:What do you mean, he was doing all the work himself? Triggers do NOTHING for the drummer! You still have to hit the pedals, keep in time, do everything a normal drummer should... In fact, some drummers that trigger, don't even use the i-want-all-my-kicks-to-sound-at-the-same-volume-setting! It's just a way of making all kicks sound the same, and, for the sound-engineer, it makes the kick easier to pull out of the mix! No need for mics...
But why all this fuss about triggers? Damn.. At death-metal speeds (250 bpm), it is impossible to play the kicks at a high volume. So instead of miking and compressing/eq-ing the fuck out of the signal, why not use a module? Sooo much easier, kicks are perfectly audible and sound superb!
I don't see anyone bashing Per for example, for not bringing a complete Steinway piano, a Hammond B3 and a Mellotron on stage... Why not? Same principle..
Every forum i'm registered has it's own triggers suck!-thread... Why? I just don't get it... I've read stuff like 'This drummer sucks, he uses triggers!!' soooo many times... Guess most people screaming 'triggers suck!' don't know exactly what a trigger does, and have never tried mixing a band.
End of rant.
i think you misinterpreted our discussion a little, I know I wasn't bashing either drummer I just like to know what they use. I don
't give a fuck if they use triggers, except that I'm curious. I never said it made youi a worse drummer
MrJack said:
I know, it wasn't directed at you! I seem to react overdone when people start about triggers, i've seen one to many discussion about those things
So no offence to anyone, just pointing out just what those thingies do for those who don't know, and that they don't help the drummer as much as people think they do
opeth_353
Member
Well personally i thank you for doing that as it's actually explained a lot about triggers for me - i'm a purely acoustic drummer atm.. but have been considering going into triggered druming.. i have a leg problem which means i have to drum through pain to be able to do decent double bass and was wondering whether triggering could help me out.. Sounds like it's something worth exploring personally!
worldwide_suicide
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- Nov 27, 2005
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JoeVice
Member
synth guitar is like a trigger. the guitar that i have my eyes on has this option. it doesn't really appeal to me though.
worldwide_suicide
Member
- Nov 27, 2005
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