Trying to reamp for first time, getting a hum

James Murphy said:
are you serious? jeeez.:erk: i started reamping over 10 years ago... bought my first Reamp off John Cuniberti himself, right off his doorstep, when he was still operating out of his house in California... i tried to do this (reamping) several different ways, including with a DI box, before i took the step of spending over $200 for an extra piece of gear. Trust me, get a reamp box... either a Radial model or a Cuniberti... but honestly man, have you not read the whole thread? it's not worth trying, ok? good grief.

:rolleyes:

Edit: ok it IS worth trying if you are trying to get a crap sound.
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imho the best way to learn stuff is the hard way, namely trial and error, so... anyway it's up to him :)
 
I just want to chime in here... James, I don't doubt your experience and your knowledge on the subject of reamping, but I have a passive Radial ProDI that I recently used for reamping for the first time, and it worked great in reverse. I sent the clean track out of my Digi002 (1/4" out), into this:

micthingbz7.jpg


Then obviously the mic cable, into the DI in reverse, and then the guitar cable on to the amp. To get the DI level right, I started with the DAW fader of the track completely down (which of course, produced no sound through the amp at all), and then eased it up until it sounded right coming out of the amp. Too little level sounded just like having the pot on the guitar turned down, and too much level just made the tone sound kind of nasty, like too much of a pedal boost before the amp or something.
Anyway, I trust my ears and I'm confident that using the passive DI (instead of a Reamp box) had no audible effect on the way the amp tone sounded. I was quite happy how well the entire experience went actually, but I'm still just trying to wrap my mind around the whole idea that I was actually doing something that could damage my gear. How is it possible that I am damaging some gear when I have a seemlingly safe and healthy signal level being sent to my amp? And which gear might I be damaging? Isn't the DI in reverse converting a lo-Z signal from my Digi002 into the hi-Z signal that my guitar amp wants?

I will gladly go a buy myself a Reamp box, I just want to be convinced of it in light of my positive reverse DI experience.
 
"using a direct box in reverse would put a +4dbm signal into a –60dbm output and would cause extreme signal distortion before you even plugged into the amp."

the "damage" warning was in response the the thread starter's premise.. which did not include a DI box at all. i'm still not sure if either way is safe, but i am sure that if you can't hear the problems caused by using a DI in reverse, then hey, knock yourself out.... none for me though, thanks.
 
James Murphy said:
"using a direct box in reverse would put a +4dbm signal into a –60dbm output and would cause extreme signal distortion before you even plugged into the amp."

the "damage" warning was in response the the thread starter's premise.. which did not include a DI box at all. i'm still not sure if either way is safe, but i am sure that if you can't hear the problems caused by using a DI in reverse, then hey, knock yourself out.... none for me though, thanks.
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Im with James on that.

I'm not sure about the circuitry involved in turning the signal in a DI to -60dbm on the output.

But if its like most electronics, going the opposite way is still processing it the same.

I think the standard DI box's one job is to turn a line level input signal of approximately -20dbm into a -60dbm output. Essentialy removes 40dbm.

So either way you do the math, feeding +4 dbm into a a DI in reverse that is designed to remove 40dbm of the signal will leave you with far less that -20dbm going to the input of the amp.

Probably more like -36dbm which is almost half signal strength.

This lower level signal may introduce increased noise or distortion when boosted through an amp.

So I would assume you either Reverse DI and feed your amp -36dbm.

Or you go with a Reamp or X-Amp and feed your amp -20dbm.

Now it may be possible that some DI boxes like Whirlwind have different PAD selections.

If there is a -20 PAD, then you might end up with the right signal for a reverse DI as opposed to one that only does -40 standard.

And instead of buying a proper DI to reverse that is specifically switchable to both -20 and -40, I would rather buy a Reamp made to do the right job plus have the Trim adjustment.

I'd rather know I'm working with a clean and proper signal level.
 
James is right: Get a reamp box. For the price, it's a no brainer.


I am curious as to why he prefers the Cunibertti version, though. (don't read much into this, I'm sure it's great! I'm curious, that's all!!!) I've been working with the Radial for over a year now & have been getting fantastic results.
 
OzNimbus said:
James is right: Get a reamp box. For the price, it's a no brainer.
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yes, you will have better sounding results and $200 is nothing. though Oz, a lot of guys on here are trying so hard to find "easy"(cheap*) ways around such problems because they have limited resources. for those that are young and in school still, be it college or high school, $200 can seem like quite a lot of money and/or very hard to come by. Hey, it's a lot to me... but when it comes to audio i spend what it takes to get the job done right at the best quality possible and i don't think twice about it.

ok, now before some "Basic Recording Cocepts 101 super-hero" decides to point out the amazingly obvious.... yes, it's more about the ear than gear... but no ear in the world is going to get you around the particular level/resistance mismatch problems that reamping presents, at the best possible quality, without appropriately designed equipment for doing the job. in fact your ear will confirm this for you if you pay attention to it.

so, either get to building your own line matching transformer if you possess the technical bent to do such things, buy one of the excellent re-amping products available from Cuniberti or Radial, or settle for "less than" audio in your reamping efforts.


OzNimbus said:
I am curious as to why he prefers the Cunibertti version, though. (don't read much into this, I'm sure it's great! I'm curious, that's all!!!) I've been working with the Radial for over a year now & have been getting fantastic results.
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Love Radial products.. i own a JDVmk3 D.I. and a JD7 amp distributor and love them, but i've been using the cuniberti for years before i knew that Radial even existed.. perhaps even before they existed. i did try some Radial re-amping, but with the built-in re-amping facility of the JD7, and felt the Cuniberti was a bit better sounding. i have not tried any of Radial's products that are more reamping specific though, so as far as i know they are just as good.
 
AudioPhile777 said:
Do you have a parts list or a link to the diy 808 you're doing?
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I'm not sure if it's of use, but you guys could check out this page.
http://babelfish.yahoo.com/translat...hives/000004.html&lp=ja_en&btnTrUrl=Translate

Denial Machine said:
You can get these parts at any decent electronics parts store. The trick is to get a nice transformer.
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Yeah well, I had problems getting them so I just ordered them from Mouser in the states. Added quite a hefty shipping to it but at least I got the parts right.

I got the casing from here and the Edcor transformator from Belgium (I'm in contact with their european distributor right now, nice guy). You could get a jensen trafo too, but that'll run you at least twice the cost of the edcor (9,something).

I'm not sure sales are allowed here, but I can build you one for something liek 60 euros (that's not included labour, only the parts). I've got parts for 3 boxes, I'll only need one, one goes to a friend of mine in Finland (Keessi from this board) and another one is either for backup or one of you guys, if you're interested. Otherwise, just wait till the picture tutorial of the build is done, that'll be handy, I think.
 
I own the Little Labs Redeye, and the Cuniberti Reamp, and I have a Radial Pro48 as well.

They both kick ass at reamping & both use quality custom-wound transformers.

The DI on the Redeye is very nice too, but keep in mind it is a passive DI. Unless you're using active pickups or very high output passives, you will notice some high end loss. Anyone who has used the JDI on electric guitar should know what I'm talking about. Why? Transformers put a load on your pickups. An active DI/pickups fix this issue by buffering the input.

From my testing, I prefer the Pro48 to the Redeye on all my passive guitars. Before I picked up the Pro48, I was using the instrument DIs on my preamps (preamp DIs are active). I'm in the middle of installing EMGs in one of my guitars, so I'll let you know which DI I prefer with that guitar, but I expect that the Pro48 will end up being the go-to DI for all guitars & basses.

However, when running a synth or the occasional active bass, I find that the Redeye sounds better to me than the Pro48 or DI's on my preamps. The Redeye and it's transformer were designed for the reamp abilities, and the DI was added later, so the DI is kind of an "extra bonus". However, it is still a very, very good passive DI, just as good as the JDI, if not better.

When it comes to reamping, the quality of the transformer is going to make all the difference. Cuniberti and Jonathan at Little Labs both spent a lot of time testing and researching different transformers. They both ended up using custom-wound transformers, which means that stock transformers, even a quality Jensen, while working great in passive DIs, don't perform as well for reamping. Just one more reason to buy a real reamp...

I haven't heard or tested the X-Amp. I stayed away from it because it's active, and I simply don't see the need to use an active reamp. Radial has a cheap new reamp box out called the ProRMP, and it's passive. Their website claims that it is the same as the Cuniberti Reamp, but because it's mass-produced it's cheaper.

I can attest to the quality of the Reamp and the Redeye. Both are well-designed and constructed and wouldn't hesitate to recommend either one. If you have use for an extra passive DI, get the Redeye. If not, get the Reamp. You can get the Redeye at Mercenary for $225.

Another reason to buy from Cuniberti/Little Labs: Feel good supporting the little guys making quality hand-built gear instead of the mass-manufacturing giants (even though I like Radial products and they are by no means shoddy or cheaply manufactured). Jonathan is especially helpful with any questions or concerns his customers have. Both products are worth their asking price. You get what you pay for.
 
I'm in the middle of installing EMGs in one of my guitars, so I'll let you know which DI I prefer with that guitar,
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So how did it go? I'm currently about to buy a reamp box, but after reading some things I'm having second thoughts about the Little Labs Redeye, since I've only got passive PU guitars. The Radial Pro48 would be a better choice then? I may also get an EMG-loaded guitar later on. But for the time being, they're all going to be passive PU guitars (Seymour Duncan JB, and Seymour Duncan Invader).
 
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